Committee of the Whole – March 3, 2026

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Good morning. My name is Lisa Karns,

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counselor for Ward 2, and I would like to call to order the committee of the whole meeting for Tuesday, March 3rd, 2026. Burlington, as we know it today, is rich in history and modern traditions of many First Nations and the Matei. The from the Anesnab to the Hodnoson and the Matei, our land spanning from Lake Ontario to the Niagara Scarman are steeped in indigenous history.

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The territory is mutually covered by the dish with one spoon wampam belt covenant. An agreement between the Irakqua Confederacy, the Ajiway and other allied nations to peaceibly share and care for the resources around the Great Lakes. We acknowledge that the land on which we gather is part of the treaty lands and the territories of the Missagas of the Credit.

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In the event of an emergency, please evacuate the council chambers by the nearest exit staircase, which is located through the doorway marked with the exit symbol. Once you have evacuated the building, please gather in Civic Square outside of city hall. All Burlington committee and council meetings are live webcasted and archived on the city’s website.

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Uh the meeting is being captioned digitally through our agenda management software and I will remind everyone to slow down and speak slowly so that you can have your words captured by the software. We have rules of engagement in committee meetings and we ask everyone to please be respectful while others are speaking and listen as you would want to be listened to.

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A reminder to the committee members to adhere to the procedure bylaw and limit your questions to two at a time. Further, a member may ask a question for the purpose of attaining facts relevant to the matter. I want to remind the members that with the approval of the procedure bylaw amendment yesterday at council, the timing for asking a question is limited to one minute and you may comment on an item twice and up to three minutes is allow is allocated for each time.

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Unused time will not be tracked and carried over. We are not making decisions at this meeting. Only recommendations that will go to city council for final consideration on March 10th, 2026. The public is welcome to see when the final decision-making happens by attending the meeting either in person or watching the live stream.

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Delegates are welcome to register to speak at the council meeting. By way of introduction of our members, our first order of business today is to conduct a roll call. So I will now turn it over to the clerk who will take attendance of members and confirm that quorum is present. >> Councelor Galbury >> here. >> Councelor Nissan.

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Councelor Stolty >> present. Councelor Charman >> here. >> Councelor Bentoya >> present. >> Mayor me Ward >> present. Councelor Karns >> present. >> Chair we have quorum. >> Thank you very much. Staff joining us today our chief administrative officer Kurt Benson and our committee clerk Joanne Rudy.

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Other staff in attendance will be introduced as each agenda item is discussed. And the schedule for today’s meeting is as follows. We’ll take a short break midm morning and afternoon and lunch from 12:00 to 1:00. The meeting is scheduled until 4:30 p.m. today and will continue on Thursday, March 5th at 100 p.m. if necessary.

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At this time, we will now do the approval of the agenda. So, staff have advised that we have consultants joining us for two items on today’s agenda. Item 11.1, strategic parking framework for downtown Burlington, PWS0526. And item 8.3, City of Burlington Community Strategic Plan, Horizon 2050, TRN0326.

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And they have respectfully asked if the agenda could be reordered to have these two items discussed immediately following the consent items. In addition, item 12.2, 2 city land for affordable housing DGM 1126 needs to be considered before item 8.2 which is a real estate matter declaring interest to lease waterdown road properties LLS 1626.

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So staff have requested that 12.2 be discussed following item 8.1. I’m going to ask now if there’s any other requests to change the agenda. Councelor Nissan, please. Yeah, thank you, chair. Um, there’s a consent item I’m going to be pulling and I just it’s part of the um community corporate services section, so which is the first section usually on the agenda.

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So, in light of the requested changes, are we still able to address that at the beginning of the meeting? uh a cons a up pulled consent item. Uh yeah, would be good to know because um I am uh traveling for FCM business later today. Thank you. >> Uh the reason the other two items uh got moved up is because there are consultants present.

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So uh I think staff would like to go ahead with the two items that have the consultants if if your item could wait until after that. >> Okay. As long as it’s uh done today. Yeah. We might ask to move the item up later if if necessary. the uh chair. Thank you. >> I’m sure we can figure it out. >> Okay. Thanks.

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I can move the changes if you need. >> Uh thank you very much. So moved by Councelor Nissan. I see no further hands on the on the board. So all those in favor now? >> Any opposed? And that carries. Uh just for folks in the audience, just to let you know, we are going to have a little bit of a long agenda today. So uh bear with us.

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We have a statutory public meeting to start. We’ll get through some administrative things uh that are on our schedules like the delegations uh and then you’re going to hear some consultant presentations and then we’re going to get into consent and then regular items. So uh follow along and we can get you some help with the clerk to try to gauge when your items coming up.

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I will now look to committee members to see if there are any declarations of interest, pecuniary interest. Councelor Gre. >> Uh yes, thank you chair. I have uh going to declare a pecuniary interest on item 8.2 2 real estate matter declaring intent to lease Waterdown Road Properties LLS-16-26 and item 12.

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2 city land for affordable housing DGM1-26. >> Okay. Thank you. Noted by the clerk. So we will now begin today’s meeting with item 13.1 which is a statutory public meeting. The purpose of the statutory public meeting today is to present this report in a public forum as required by the planning act. The report before committee today will go to city council for final consideration on March 10th, 2026.

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And during the course of the statutory public meeting today, a ticker tape with delegation registration information will be scrolling along the bottom of the webcast which provides details on how to submit a delegation request. If there are requests during the course of the meeting, new delegates will be communicated to the city clerk who will advise the chair.

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After all registered delegations are complete, I will then make a last call for delegations and indicate the deadline time. A recess will be called to ensure that all requests made in advance of the deadline can be provided with all applicable access codes and instructions. When all requests have been dealt with to the satisfaction of the chair and the committee clerk, we will reconvene and the remainder of the delegates will be heard by committee.

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It is important to note that only the minister, the applicant, specified person and public bodies as defined in the planning act and registered owners of the lands to which the bylaw will apply and who made submissions at the public meeting or who have made written submissions to the city before the bylaw is passed will be able to appeal the decision of the city of Burlington to the Ontario Land Tribunal.

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With that, we will move to item 13.1 delegated authority bylaw amendment and enabling official plan amendments LLS 1326 and staff will begin with a brief presentation and then we will proceed to the delegations. So I will now pass it over to Allison NS manager policy and community initiatives. >> Thank you chair and committee.

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This statutory public meeting uh related to report LLS 1326 relates to delegated authority amendments and enabling official plan amendments. So typically uh next slide please. Typically we would you would normally see a legal and legislative services report for new delegated authorities being requested through committee.

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Um that would normally be a regular item on the agenda. Uh but we’ve combined uh an official plan amendment with the delegated authority bylaw as we did once last year as well. Just offers an opportunity to um amend the official plan in in a few critical ways that will help us deal with technical issues and interpretation issues.

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So we’ve combined these two items into a report and that’s going to help us do three things. uh present new opportunities for delegations of authority, update existing delegated authorities that don’t require an official plan amendment. And then in terms of the official plan, delegate uh delegated authority for um that are in sorry, pardon me, delegated authority amendments that are enabled by an official plan amendment as well as some other official plan amendments that just help us deal with the transition um in the planning world around us. Next slide, please. Um so if the official plan amendments uh both to the regional official plan and to BOP 2020 uh the city’s official plan um list out new technical changes that

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would not require an amendment to the official plan. So those new uh if approved, those new technical amendments would be housed in the delegated authority bylaw and would allow us to make technical changes that do not change the intent or purpose of a policy. Simply um imagine a renumbering or a renaming of an agency.

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That that’s the nature. Uh next slide please. In addition to those new technical uh changes that would allow us to do things without amendment to the official plan, we’ve proposed a few other updates and these really deal with transition and administrative matters. As I just alluded to, these new policies acknowledge that PPS 2020 and the growth plan have both been revoked.

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uh we have a new provincial policy statement 2024 and we’ve seen the transition of the upper tier planning responsibilities to the local municipality. So these these changes simply acknowledge those changes and help us interpret policy um consistently as we go forward in this quite uh complicated uh scenario that we’re in right now.

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We’ve also included some minor amendments to clarify both the adoption and approval dates of official plans which just help us describe more uh more precisely uh what we’re dealing with in terms of approved or adopted or modified policies. The last thing that the that the report asks is for approval to withdraw obsolete policies.

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So, in amending the the uh technical the the nature of technical changes that don’t require an official plan, we have a policy that’s currently under appeal in official plan 2020 that we can withdraw and we would do that through the OOLT. Uh next slide, please. So, that brings me to the end of the my presentation.

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The staff recommendations include uh requesting committee to consider adoption of the enabling official plan amendments. Um approve the proposed revisions to the delegated authority bylaw found in the report. And once and if OPA 8 and Burlington regional official plan amendment two are in full force in effect, further amend the delegated authority bylaw.

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Uh and that’s that’s the conclusion of my presentation. >> Thank you very much. We will now ask delegations to provide their comments to committee. And I want to recognize that we have no pre-registered delegates. So, I will now ask if there’s anyone watching the live stream or present in council chambers who would like to delegate to legislative services report LLS 1326 regarding delegated authority bylaw amendments and enabling official plan amendments to please submit your request by 9:46 to clerks burlington.ca CA or call 3357777 extension7481 as noted in the ticker tape that is scrolling at the bottom of the screen. So we will now take a 5m minute recess to ensure that we have received all

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requests to delegate and the meeting is recessed until 950. I’ve been advised by the clerk that

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there are no requests to delegate on this item. So, I will now declare that the public meeting portion of this meeting is now closed. Are there any questions for staff? Who would like to move the report? Councelor Nissan. Before calling the vote, would any member like to comment on the motion? Okay. And I’ll call the vote now.

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All those in I’m going to call the vote on item 13.1 delegated authority bylaw amendments and enabling official plan LLS 1326. And the motion is as follows. Adopt amendment 8 to the Burlington Official Plan 2020, OPA8, as provided in appendix A of Legislative Services Report LLS 1326 and to add policies to enable certain technical changes without a plan amendment and to add policies to assist in the interpretation of the city’s official plans and to adopt an amendment amendment number two to the Burlington Regional Official Plan 1995 BR OPA2 as provided in appendex B of Legislative Services Report LLS 1326 and to add policies to enable certain technical changes without a plan amendment and deem that OPA 8 and BOPA2 are in compliance with the planning act and instruct the city clerk to prepare

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the necessary bylaws adopting OPA8 and BOPA 2 substantially in the form attached as appendix A and appendix B of legislative services report LLS 1326 respectfully and approve the withdrawal of subsection 12.2.2mm in its entirety from the BOP 2020 and instruct the city clerk to prepare the necessary bylaw to amend bylaw number 24-208 being the adopted bylaw for the BOP 2020 to delete subsection 12.

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2.2m 2M in its entirety and to authorize the commissioner, legal and legislative services, city solicitor or as designate to advise the Ontario Land Tribunal of the withdrawal of section subsection 12.2.2mm 2M of the BOP 2020 and approve the proposed new delegations of authority proposed provided in legislative services report LLS 1326 and enact the amending bylaw substantially in the form attached as appendix C to legislative services report LLS1326 to amend bylaw 712023 being a bylaw to delegate authorities to staff and to direct the city clerk to bring forward a further amending bylaw to bylaw 71 1, 2023 to delegate the additional authorities introduced through OPA 8 and BR OPA 2 once the amendments are in full force and effect. Now calling the vote for those in favor, please

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and those opposed and that carries. This now completes the statutory public meeting portion of our agenda. We do not have any presentations. So we will now move to our delegations with a reminder to delegates that their items will be discussed in the order of the approved agenda which may be later today.

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You may remain in the chambers if you choose to leave or you can watch the meeting on liveream. The link to the live stream is available at burlington.ca/meings and all public attendees must maintain order. Each delegate will have 10 minutes to provide their comments. We will be using the time clock in council chambers to keep track of your time which you will be able to view at the podium or on your screen if attending remotely.

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And once you’re done, please remain to answer any questions committee members may have for you. And I will remind committee members that your questions should be for clarification and you now have one minute to ask each question. We have 11 registered delegations for today’s meeting. And so we will start with our first which will be Leia Logan and Sylvia Harris of Indwell who are joining us in person to speak regarding the real estate matter declaring intent to lease Waterdown Road Properties LLS 1626.

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Good morning through the chair. My name is Sylvia Harris. I’m a develop senior development manager with Flourish and I’ve been working closely with uh staff on both items 8.2 2 and 12.2 and we’re just here to introduce ourselves and u let you know that we’ll be available to answer any questions following those reports.

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Hi everybody. My name is Leah Logan and I’m a regional director for Indwell. Um I’ve been working with the organization for over 10 years and as an organization of over 51 years old, we’ve been focused on building affordable supportive housing for southwestern Ontario. And so we’ve been really excited to partner with the city of Burlington to see more homes uh um supported and built in Burlington recognizing there’s need here and I’m excited to share more about the partnership in in the future. So we’re here to answer any questions that you might have when um when our items come to call. Thank you everybody. >> Okay. So just stay with us. Um the way that the delegations work is that um it doesn’t go after your item. So, right now is when we would ask you questions. So, >> okay. >> How would you feel most comfortable dividing up your two delegations because you’re also delegating next on DGM 1126 which is the city land for affordable

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housing. So, one of your delegations is the intent to lease and one is city land for affordable housing. So, >> I through the chair I think that you reversed the order in the agenda. So to discuss the um the land items se separately. >> Okay. >> But we’re we’re happy to answer any questions whatever council like to do.

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So since you don’t have written remarks, that’s why we put them split so that your timing can be monitored and and administered appropriately. So what we’ll do is we’ll blend the two and we’ll just open it up to questions of committee members if you’re comfortable with that.

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If that’s if you’ve said everything you’d like to say to us, we can ask our questions now. Okay. >> Okay. I will now look to the board for committee questions and it will be Mayor Meard followed by councelor Stolty. >> Thank you through you chair. Uh I’m wondering if you can uh give the community and us a little more information about what supportive affordable housing is.

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Um how uh people are selected to be in the uh in the units and what kind of supportive uh services are offered. of thank you for the question, Mayor Mid Ward. Uh we are focused on providing housing for those that are seeking health, wellness, and belonging in their lives. And so when we see supportive affordable housing, it’s making sure that we’re building the village of support.

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Sorry, I’m sorry. We need you to speak directly into the microphone. >> Okay, sure. I can do that. Yes. >> There we go. Okay. There we go. Can everyone hear me? Okay. Okay, that’s great. Um, so a little bit more about Indwell and our supportive housing model is that we are focused on bringing the supports into the housing for the individuals that we’re looking to serve.

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Um, for us that means building a village of supports uh dependent on what the tenants needs are um to make sure that they can stay housed, they retain their housing and that they grow in their health and wellness. So it looks very different depending on the demographic that we serve. Um, in terms of overall demographic, we’re looking to house individuals that are in need of deep affordable housing.

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So, folks that generally cannot afford market rent that are usually supported by government income and are looking for some daily supports in their life. Um, so it it’s a it’s a vast array. We have a continuum that we support. We have some individuals that we support in enhanced programs with um a a very wrapped around approach of support to those individuals.

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And then we also build housing that’s independent where we have one or two staff that support people that live independently and might just need help on a day-to-day basis with something coming in the mail. So, uh, we have a a whole continuum that we offer and, uh, we are focused predominantly on supporting people that are living in Burlington that need housing in Burlington.

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And so, we’ll develop a program based on those individuals that we get to meet um, and support them with their journey in housing. >> Thank you. And just my second question is around um, how you uh, determine the candidates for this housing. Is it is it predominantly through the housing um weight list at the region or do you have your own qualification process? >> Uh we will work with Halton region’s coordinated weight list system uh pri uh prioritizing those that live in Burlington as people that live in Burlington should uh have that opportunity to continue to live in Burlington. Um our eligibility is very simple that it’s people that need deep affordability in their housing. So there are um income eligibility criteria for them as well as individuals that are focused on wanting supports in their housing. If someone’s not really interested in supports, then we want to find them an alternative housing option

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that’s going to fit their needs a little bit more. >> Thank you. Stay with us. You have uh councelor Stoalty followed by councelor Charman. >> Thank you chair. Thank you for being here today. Um, so some of your the questions and responses just now helped to cl to well clarify some things that I also was was wondering and the the last point you just made about eligibility.

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So are you saying that if someone applies well they can’t apply directly to you they’re coming from the hatch weight list. >> If their only need is affordability does that mean they wouldn’t qualify for the indwell project or the one that we’re looking at here? >> No, I wouldn’t say that specifically.

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I would say it’s and or um so we are wanting to serve folks that need the affordability in their housing as well and for those individuals getting a community of of people that will support them is just the added bonus. So we will serve those that just need that deep affordability as well.

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Um but it’s a andor for for our eligibility model. >> So help me understand what you meant then when you said that if they were not interested in supports you would help them find housing elsewhere. What did that mean? >> Yes. I think it it’s like uh long term. So for me it’s uh support looks very different for each individual.

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So um for me some there there are some tenants that will see daytoday. There are some tenants that see us once a month. Um what they’re accepting is that we are there present and available for supports on a long-term basis. And so when there are individuals that are not interested in seeing me daytoday, those are individuals we know that are not going to want to um participate in the programming, the community activities that we have on a day-to-day basis.

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So we don’t ask everyone to participate in program, but we’re asking people to be part of a community. And so if that’s something that maybe people just want an independent living environment, that might not be something that they’re looking for or would want to live in in our housing here. >> Does that make sense? >> Kind of.

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Yes. It’s kind of, you know, I kind of I equate it to my siblings. You know, sometimes I call mom on a regular basis, sometimes my brothers call her, not at all. And so for us, it’s like that village of support is available. Um, and we all uh need different levels of support from our family members, from our village on a regular basis.

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So, we have some tenants that will not need a lot of support from us, but it’s there and available and they’ll seek it when they need it. And there are some tenants that will need lots of support from us on a day-to-day basis that they seek on a often on a regular basis. >> So, sorry, I understand that piece.

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So, if someone is not interested in the support, they’ll be encouraged to move to a different >> Yes. So I would say if someone wants to live independently not really in um enticed by the community u model that we have then we would look to see them housed somewhere else. >> Okay.

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So it’s first and foremost a supportive housing with with affordability not affordable housing with supports. Support is the first key and affordability is a huge bonus that goes with that. >> Um yes I do see them the same. Um so I think you know we have affordability and we have supports um supportive housing and affordability with supports I think for me is uh the same language because we are both offering affordability and supports tied to that.

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Okay. >> I appreciate that you think it’s the same language when we talk here and at the region there is a bit of a difference and that’s the difference that the region and Burlington are trying to find that sweet spot between >> you know I’m trying to do a good job as >> you are. I’m sorry.

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I’m sorry that was edging into a comment. My apologies. >> My apologies. Okay, second question. Sorry. I will save that for later. >> I’m gonna put you back in line. I’m gonna call my clarity question. I’ll go back in and I’m going to put you back. Thank you for your response. No, that’s okay. >> And I’m going to go to councelor Charerman.

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Oh my gosh, my colleague so keen to keep going. Um, you may know that I’m president whole community housing uh corporation. Um, one of the things that we need to deal with is prioritized applicants. How do you handle those in your case when you get those folks? they may not meet your requirements I imagine.

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Yes. So I think what’s really important to know is that um as an organization when we enter a region we are committed to making an impact on on uh the needs of that region. And so while this is a first project for us, we want to be actually seeing at least 200 units of housing developed for Halton region as a whole um and a specific amount of that specifically for the city of Burlington to meet the city of Burlington needs.

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And so, um, what we do is we really focus on creating our continuum of support, our programs that have lots of support in them and our programs that are minimal in support. And so, that allows us to help with that criteria and priority to make sure that everyone has the opportunity to find the housing that’s going to meet their specific need.

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We are very working really diligently with Halton Region to say what are the priority needs in Burlington. what is the program type that is needed for the city of Burlington and how do we build that together? So, um we are looking at a variety of different data but predominantly working on the weight list, working on those individuals that really need that housing right now in Burlington to make sure that they are prioritized.

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Okay. Thank you. Uh my second question is with respect to when you talk about surround services. Um does that is that in any way similar to the community wellness hubs that we’ve been deploying AC across the region and could you explain in what way? >> For sure. Uh when we talk about supports in our housing those are wraparound supports hired by Indwell um usually supported by the Ministry of Health to provide housing or supports in our housing.

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And so we have an interdisciplinary team that we build up again dependent on the need of the demographic that we’re serving that works in the building to support people in their day-to-day in their housing and in their daily uh living um activities that they have. So um that is an array of individuals from housing support workers to uh mental health support workers to nurses on staff to psychosocial supports that work on those social development skills that people have.

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And so uh for us our our supports are in our building and we work with our colleagues and our partners in the community as well because our focus is yes we can provide supports but we want to grow everyone’s village. So if they left Indwell at any given time they would still have those supports in the community that they could lean on.

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So very similar in the wraparound um concept but we put that right embedded into our model in our housing. Well, like my colleague, I have a dozen questions, but I’m not going to ask them, but I’d love to talk to you afterwards. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. So, um, just so folks know, after first time, the chair can ask questions.

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Um, I am curious, in your view, what is the priority need in Burlington, and I’ll recognize that uh on the Halton Police Board alongside the police foundation, they just put a motion forward to explore uh youth homelessness. uh we have Halton Women’s Place that continues to indicate to us that intimate partner violence rates are growing and that the women escaping violence have nowhere to live.

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So um there is a huge need across City of Burlington because we’re talking about City of Burlington funds, not Halton Region’s social services and well-being plan at this moment. So can you please tell us what in your mind at this time is a housing priority for Burlington? Mhm. Um that’s a great question and I think um housing need is vast for us as an organization.

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What we’re looking to do is fill the gaps where agencies and services can’t necessarily support um uh or or there isn’t supports in place already. And so uh when we’re looking at the weight lists for Burlington, when we’re looking at the specific numbers, you are absolutely right. There is a high level of domestic violence and supports in housing that are needed there.

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Um there are an array of families that also need support in this community. Um what has been brought to our attention is that there is also a significant need for single individual homes. And so that is our focus um in building um 74 approximately 74 units of housing on water down road recognizing that the numbers are telling us that single individuals are in high need of housing as well.

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Um and those predominantly that again just cannot hit market rent um levels with their incomes currently. So that’s our focus right now. >> Okay. So I’ll just use a second question then. Um we often hear from our community and we’ve also advanced with some of our planning work two-bedroom plus threebedroom uh the single the single unit.

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We’re not sure what that means. A single individual home. Is this for people who just are individual like young professionals that can’t seem to find housing? Is it people with other types of acuity? I didn’t see this as being what my community is saying they’re looking for. I’m often hearing families, young professionals, seniors.

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I haven’t really heard single individual units. That sounds like something more aligned with like >> some other services. So, so can you help me understand that a little bit more? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the problems that we have right now in our communities is that housing is needed everywhere.

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And so, I think every demographic is in in need of housing. What we are good at is supporting individuals that have low incomes that are supported on programs like Ontario disability support programs on Ontario Works. Um we caveat and build our units uh one-bedroom apartments uh for those single individuals, but there are couples, there are families that are tied to that as well.

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Um so we are focused again on those individuals that are usually by themselves not with that village of supports. um and those that are also struggling with some acuity and need some health supports in their housing as well. So um not necessar that that is an array right that that is seniors that is youth that is everybody in between and so we will serve you know components of every demographic that you named um but our services are predominantly for those that um you know are on deep need of affordability as well as needing some health supports as well. Thank you. >> And I can follow up that question too. So when we’re also looking at this land and the opportunity that we have here on water down road, looking to maximize the number of units possible um within the program model that we know that Endwell is successful with. Um and that does lend itself to more one and and smaller one-bedroom units and some smaller twobs

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potentially. Um but but uh we do Indwell has experience with some larger units too and and we’re opening our first building with three bedrooms as well in Hamilton. So if that is a need, we’re happy to follow up on that and to um we’re actively looking for property as we speak. So if there’s other opportunities where that built form may may make more sense in the low-rise community at low-rise neighborhood, we’re very much willing to explore those options and work on a specialized tailor program for the specific needs that you’re seeing. >> Okay. Thank you. I I think we’re seeing a lot of family needs. Uh councelor Stolty second time. >> Thank you, Chair. Um could you speak in regards to the demographics that you serve? I understand you have different levels of programs within INDL and I for the life of me I couldn’t remember and I was trying to look online but I couldn’t see on your website. If you could talk a little bit about the different levels of programming and I think the newer one that I know that we’d had a conversation

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that I thought to councelor Kern’s question might be a better um collaboration between Burlington’s needs and what Indwell offers. So I wonder if you can talk a little bit about the different levels of programming especially the higher level one. >> Sure. Um so when I talk about having a continuum of supported programs uh we have one end of that spectrum which we call an enhanced program and that is uh supporting individuals that are coming from chronic homelessness, long-term hospitalization um and are needing significant health supports to retain their housing to grow, stabilize and uh see themselves flourish in the future. And so in that staff complement, we uh have approximately 16 full-time staff that are on site supporting uh approximately 45 people on a day-to-day basis. On the other side of our continuum, we have something called a standard program where tenants live independently. Um and we have one or two staff that are just present to support with the day-to-day

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es and flows of life. And so, um what we try to do is build that whole continuum. And so, um, as we look at water down road, we haven’t really decided on what type of programs that we’ll be offering, um, what we need to do is learn more about the demographic and those specific individuals to understand what program we can build that’s going to meet those needs.

00:51:59
And so, um, I think between, uh, um, the the units that we have, we can be flexible, um, with a couple of array of programs that can again meet the needs of the the the future folks that we hope to serve in this building. >> Okay. Sorry, thank you. Just for clarity, there was a specific program name. It wasn’t called standard.

00:52:18
which >> I think you’re referring through the chair you’re referring to gather which is um Indwell’s um new company that we’re launching and it’s part of what we’re calling the Indwell families companies. So it’s different than supportive housing. It’s focused on affordable housing for people making under the median income which in Ontario which is $90,000.

00:52:38
So targeting those rents to be a third of their income, but it’s not focused on deep affordability for those living under the poverty line or on government assistance. It’s for working individuals or families uh who who just uh are everyday people struggling to make rent um meet because of the lack of affordable housing within our community as a whole.

00:53:01
But it’s different than Gather. I mean it’s different than Indwell and um that that company is also we’re focused on different uh larger um areas of land where we can maximize the number of units and specifically um it has different requirements than a site that Indwell would be looking at. So um where we were looking at this site it it’s much more tailored to um a building that would meet Indwell’s needs rather than Gather’s needs.

00:53:36
Okay. Um, okay. >> If this helps, you’re the only one on the board. >> Am I? Okay. Thank you. Okay. >> So, thank you. Thank you. It was that gather program that I was most intrigued by because I know that we’ve had conversations about that fine line between what are regional responsibilities under the health and wellness plan versus what fits under Burlington’s strategic housing strategy.

00:54:01
and that the halfunding we’re really trying to protect under what is under Burlington’s housing strategy if the gather program is something that could fit much more cleanly under Burlington’s housing strategy is that something that we can look at using the water down road site for and that way we’re kind of achieving both Burlington’s goals and endwells goals >> so gather through the chair uh gather is a new entity we haven’t uh we haven’t developed any buildings yet we’re all in the beginning stage pages of of of plans for um a few different projects across Ontario. Um one of the major things that we looked at when we were when we were launching this um company was that we weren’t going to do a gather project first before Indwell had an an established presence in a community and so Indwell is just at the beginning stages of launching into the Halton region. So this is uh as an organization as indwell family of companies this is

00:54:58
our priority to establish uh indwell but at the same time we are looking for opportunities for gather in this area. Um so there we’re working concurrently at it but as a priority for the indwell family of companies Indwell is our priority. >> Could you help me understand why you wouldn’t consider a gather program before there is a indwell program? >> Um it’s around uh operational services.

00:55:23
So IND when Indwell comes into um an area it brings a high level of operational services especially around facilities management and gather will be building off of that but Indwell as the base uh so that’s the way we’re launching this program this this this uh organization um throughout Ontario um and that’s um our operational plan that’s really guiding that rather than gather coming in with less operational resources and then indwell having to add on to that.

00:55:53
Gather is using the operational resources of Indwell to supplement for gather buildings. >> Okay. Sorry, I can keep asking questions. >> Councelor Sherman is in line now. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Uh I think I gather from what you’re saying is that the Endwell site becomes a a hub and the uh gather becomes spokes which is fairly very logical.

00:56:16

Yeah. >> Um I do have a question with respect to primary care. Um do you for your individual uh participants um do are they already attached to primary care providers or do you have do you provide the >> primary care? >> Yes, thank you for that question. Um so we uh we do not offer specific primary care.

00:56:40
Um but we want to be the treatment plan after the primary care. And so our predominant goal is to see everyone attached to primary care and then we support primary care in seeing um a care plan initiated for a tenant. And so uh that’s part of our work. Again, if a tenant leaves Indwell, we want them still connected to primary care in whatever housing setting that they move to.

00:57:04
And so we are often the referral source to primary care, the support for primary care, but we don’t actually offer that within our services. >> So thank you for that. Um, so the the typical model in across Canada is the primary g care provider is the gatekeeper to all good stuff. >> Um, whereas as you know in the model you’re following that social determinance of health are probably the things that keep them away from the primary care and out of crisis.

00:57:28
Is that the model you’re following? Mhm. I would say we are um big advocates for the social determinance of health and we recognize that when community and uh supports are tied around individuals that they don’t need access to primary care or emergency care to the degree that they they would typically without that support tied to them.

00:57:48
And so we have uh beautiful data that demonstrates that we can actually decrease ED visits. we can help the health system by just providing supports in our housing which is lovely. >> Thank you. That confirms exactly what findings we have. Thank you. >> Uh back to councelor Stalty. >> Thank you.

00:58:10
I want to follow up on um the response which I appreciate. I have a better understanding now that that Indwell is the primary for operations and then gather would spoke off that and I certainly understand that is a very sound sounding sounding model especially when you enter a new region if there was not another indwell operational hub uh close by.

00:58:33
I’m wondering uh could that be a little bit different given the the actual location of the property that we’re looking at in Burlington and and its proximity to Windwell projects in Hamilton. If you were to do a gather project on the opposite side of Hamilton, you’d probably be geographically further away from the Indwell project than what this one would be in Burlington being right down Plains Road.

00:58:55
Would that potentially change your willingness to have a conversation about whether despite the fact there is a invisible boundary dividing Hamilton and Halton region that geographically for operational purposes if it was a gather project it would be very close to an Indwell project. >> Yes. Uh through the chair. Uh that’s a great question and there are um you’re you’re correct counselor that there are some advantages to being next door to Hamilton Burlington and those are the advantages that we um also view as as good um for both Indwell and Gather moving into Halton and moving into Burlington. Um however the the operational requirements of an Indwell program and what we have in Hamilton is quite high. We’re working very hard to make sure that we can can meet those needs where we are. So really as we’re looking at Burlington and even though it is very much just down the road and that

00:59:53
there are approximate advantages to having that be close by from a budget perspective they’re very much separate. Um, and so maybe Leah’s time, she’s she’s at a higher level, a management level. That’s where we see those operational efficiencies. But in the day-to-day workload and the op and running the buildings, they’re very much distinct um from each other.

01:00:13
And and we um we focus on regional um expansion and and sort of um planning out the the expansion of a regional program um in separated from from the others. Uh so even though there might be next door um we really keep those um operational budgets very distinct. >> That’s unfortunate. >> I think though that we through the chair we are still gather still very much on the table in Burlington like we’re not saying and and these projects take time to develop.

01:00:48
Finding land in Burlington is a challenge. Um, so we’re very much at the table to continue that conversation at other sites, um, to look at, uh, opportunities you might think of. So, um, it’s not like we’re saying no together until Indwell has 200 units of housing of supportive affordable housing in Burlington.

01:01:07
We can have those conversations concurrently. I think at this stage in our organizational expansion into Halton Region, Indwell is the priority. This site is a great site for affordable supportive housing. The timeliness and the ability to work with the city on the reszoning is very helpful.

01:01:24
Um so that’s why we’re focused on that right now. >> Okay. Um if I can go circle back to a question about the uh eligibility and working with the region closely as you indicated on the Hatch weight list. I also sit on the Halton Housing Corporation alongside Paul. I’m not aware of eligibility criteria within the hatch weight list that can be focused on a particular city within the region.

01:01:53
Have you talked with the region that we can be reassured that anyone who’s eligible for a project that’s funded by significant funds from Burlington will be only for Burlington residents. for us to use $7 million for a program to end up having literally 25% proportionately of Burlington residents and the others coming from areas all across Halton is what I’m a little bit concerned about.

01:02:21

So, while Hatch might not have that demographic data, um we also partake in an intake process. And so, uh we want tenants to be very familiar with our model and what they’re signing up for. Um, and we want to get to know our tenants really well. And so through that process, we could delineate if someone is from Burlington or um, outside of Burlington area.

01:02:43
So we have the mechanisms within our intake process to get that information um, as necessary >> and policy under the Hatch weight list will allow for that. Mhm. I think uh the Hatch wait list is very focused on making sure everyone is an appropriate fit and what we know is if someone is from Burlington, they want to stay and live in Burlington.

01:03:02
And so that would be a like um that would be a like support um and a focus for us as well. >> Okay. I’m going to follow up with the region just to confirm that, but that’s reassuring that you believe that there is the capacity to make sure it’s for Burlington residents. Okay. Another question I have which is a little bit sensitive and I don’t mean it to be.

01:03:19
I just want some clarity. is my understanding and correct me if I’m wrong is that um Indwell is first and foremost a Christian organization when you talk about the supports that are available in your program that you’re proposing are the daily supports and activities and so on do they have a Christian focus and if they do which is not a bad thing how do you account for ensuring that other residents who are perhaps of not of the Christian faith are comfortable and welcomed and not feel as though they’re fish outside the bowl or whatever whatever the term might be. >> Yeah. No, that’s great. Thank you for asking that question. Um, when we talk about being a Christian organization, um, it is through our values. So, we love our neighbor as ourselves. We treat people with dignity and we recognize that hope is the foundation of everything that we do. And so, it’s through our Christian values that we make every decision on a day-to-day basis. It is also those values that allow us to support people holistically

01:04:17
with that social determinance of health. So for us um anyone can live in our housing and we want to provide the support necessary to that individual and we will do that through love, dignity and hope but not specifically through uh Christian practice of of programming dayto-day. >> Okay, that’s great to hear.

01:04:36
And so just for an example, if someone were of a different faith that they required space within the common area to practice their faith, you’d be open and comfortable with that? >> Absolutely. >> That’s good to hear. Thank you. Um, I still have time. Anybody? Anybody else? No. Okay. We’ve had a lot of these conversations.

01:04:56
Just to let people know, this is not a new conversation. I just want to make sure it’s a public conversation. One of the other conversations we’ve had is about funding sources. So my understanding is is that what you are hoping to have happen today is for council to approve the purchase of land to amalgamate the land needed for this project and to move forward with a lease to end well so that you feel comfortable that you can do the next steps on your end.

01:05:21
Is that correct? >> Yes. Through the chair. So um and I think where you’re going from is is how we’re going to fund this project. Yes. So um the main funding source for affordable housing up as we know has been CHC up until now and that is switching as we speak to Build Canada Homes and Build Canada Homes portal is open and taking applications.

01:05:41
Um and we would like to get this project into the portal as soon as possible. Um we’re hoping um that can be either April or May and that would be um we would need a a lease with the city of Burlington to show Build Canada Homes that the land is secure. So that’s an the lease structure is a very important piece of our ability to acquire federal funds which is a majority funding partner of this project.

01:06:09

Okay. Okay, that makes sense. Um so when it goes back to the funding, so the first step is the purchase of the land. The second step is the lease. Then you’re going to go forward to apply to build Canada homes and have conver more conversation with the region. As I understand >> I Yes, we’re having concurrent conversations with the region.

01:06:25
Uh the the first step is to secure the land um to know where we’re building. We have concepts that we worked with staff very closely on and and um aligning timelines around uh the resoning process to making sure that this will fit within the the planning policies that are in place. Um so I think our next step would be to to go back to the region to give an update on what was uh discussed and voted on here later at council to make um potentially a funding request to them.

01:06:55
Um, it would be ideal if we had the municipal and the regional dollars confirmed before we went into a build Canada homes application. That would make it very very strong. >> And what do you mean by municipal? So that’s Burlington. >> Burlington is municipal regional Halton and and your contribution would be the land.

01:07:13

And are you comfortable if there is conditions put in place that that will be the maximum of Burlington’s contribution? Because I know there was conversations in past about if we went down this road and we purchased the land and we leased it and you made the had the conversations with the region and you made an application to build Canada homes and if that application to build Canada homes was not successful that you might need to come back to the city of Burlington to make up for that funding and I’m just anxious because we have had projects like Skyway Arena where we were assured federal funding and we went ahead with and then the federal funding never materialized and we were on the hook for millions and millions and millions millions of dollars because >> we got the money. >> Well, you got money >> eventually. Okay. So, we’re just going to decision. Okay. >> I won’t use >> Let me have a good meeting. >> Okay. Complicated. We’re going to go keep it focused. I’ll retract the Skyway arena. It was complicated. Okay. Do you

01:08:11
feel comfortable and confident that if the maximum that Burlington has the ability to contribute right now is the land and the lease that you can be able to successfully move forward >> through you the chair? Yes, we do feel confident and um one of the one of the mechanisms that Indwell always puts in practice is we do we don’t start construction on projects until we have the full capital stack in front of us.

01:08:36
So, we wouldn’t be moving forward on this project if the federal funding did not come through. Um, so we’re happy to structure that in in any sort of agreement we have with you um to just to make sure that we’re not going to be um starting construction and acquiring significant invoices from a contractor without knowing how we’re going to pay those bills.

01:08:56

Perfect. Good. That’s reassuring. And then I guess my last piece in that then is that are you also comfortable and this is I’m sorry this is worst case scenario but I do need to ask the questions that if the federal funding doesn’t come through and the project is not going to materialize which would be unfortunate but if that does eventually worst case scenario happen are you comfortable with there being a clause in the lease whereby there’s a date set that if the project can’t move forward by a certain reasonable date it’s not going to be a tight date but a certain reasonable date that you’re comfortable with the lease ending so that we can use that land that we purchased to move into something different >> through you the chair. Yes, absolutely. That makes complete sense and is we think that’s good risk management on your part. >> Thank you. Okay. End of my questions. Thanks. >> Okay. Thank you. I have I have one more question because I don’t think I had the ability to glean the answer from the conversation. So, first I want to start by saying you can clock me. Um we’re a very compassionate community here in my own ward. I have Habitat for Humanity. I have Wesley. I have St. Luke’s Close,

01:09:56
which is a co-op, and I have the region’s one of the biggest uh facilities, which is 410 John Street, Wellington Terrace. So, we have a lot of compassionate housing care in my ward alone. What I’m hearing is words like um single individual home, deep needs, uh demographics, and programs for treatment.

01:10:15
And I can say that some of the anxiety I’ve been hearing uh because we did receive a circular from staff um was around the type of individuals and their maybe acute needs that would be housed here. And to be very blunt, what they’re concerned about is uh anytime any type of substances being uh brought into the community or spillover from uh your community that you’re cultivating very positively in your you know new endeavor here.

01:10:41
So, um, how do we how do we have the asurances that it will be community aligned? >> Well, I think, you know, I’ve been general around the demographic because we don’t know the demographic yet. And so, um, as we work on design, we also work with uh, Halton and City of Burlington understand that need, but I think we want to be good neighbors.

01:11:03
And the people that we’re bringing in are your neighbors already. And so for us, our building is about the health and wellness of the people not only in the community, but the community that we’re a part of as well. And so we’re very focused on making sure that, you know, people are accountable for their actions in their housing environment uh whether that’s inside or outside as well.

01:11:25
Um and we want to make sure that there are supports available so that uh we are only good neighbors to the people around us. So, we will have those supports in place to support somebody maybe struggling with addictions. Um, but also when we know that someone has housing, we stay in our housing.

01:11:43
You know, people have worked really, really hard to get housing. And so, m much of what we’re dealing with is within the building and not outside of the building. You’ll actually see a large decrease um of that of that activity in the community as a whole. >> Thank you. And so back to one of the things that you said about legal agreements with Burlington.

01:12:03
Um how much latitude do we have? Because at this point you can see it’s clear from our conversations that we’re not overly familiar with your services. Uh we don’t have a briefing note. We don’t have an overview. I’ve never been on a tour. Um I just saw your name in this report. So um how much latitude can we or have you put into legal agreements around uh what a municipality has control over and what we don’t? because this is not really the job of a municipality.

01:12:31
We haven’t done this before. Uh this very much sits at our regional table under our health and social services uh commissioners. So what do we have control over because we’re using $7 million of Burlington half funding which we just debated for an entire day yesterday. So how much control can we have legally >> through you the chair? Um I I think we can we can um approach it more in terms of a partnership.

01:12:59
So where we we are hearing strong concerns or a desire to be very involved in the eligibility criteria to ensuring that this program meets the needs of this specific uh neighborhood. Um and so we’re happy to have those discussions, lean in um and explore what that means. if that’s never been done before between the city and Halton Region, we’re happy to be the first and and to bring together those conversations and to be very explicit in our eligibility criteria of working with Halton Region on what that looks like as we design the program. I think continuing to have conversations with the counselor um around this neighborhood, the specific concerns around the building um incorporating that into the building design. So safety is one of the main um priorities that we have both uh for the building design and for our tenant programming. So that’s safety for our tenants as well as for the community. Um so that is a big factor in terms of how we structure the

01:13:59
building um uh camera security system on-site security if that’s required. That’s definitely all those things are part of the bread and butter of who we are and how we approach projects is going forward. um we will be having um some more um direct community engagement particularly through the planning process.

01:14:17
So happy to start those relationships and conversation at the very micro level like who is actually going to be proximate to this building making sure they’re um familiar with our staff that they have relationships with our staff when the building is open. uh inviting them for a tour so they they know what is going on inside of the building and what and who to contact if there’s any issues.

01:14:39
And we’re very we’d love to invite anybody you counselor and anybody else who would have interest to come to Hamilton to tour some of our buildings to get more familiarity with how we approach our programs and how we approach design. um just to relieve your concerns and also for you to share with us more what your goals are for this for this program.

01:15:03

Yeah, that’s great. I appreciate the community engagement piece. Um and yeah, let’s take you up on that offer. Uh at this time, you are free. Uh we have no further questions on the board. So, thank you for joining us. We will now invite our next delegate, G Brown, please. He’ll be joining us in person to speak regarding city land for affordable housing DGM 1126 through you chair.

01:15:32
Good morning Mayor me Ward counselors staff and attendees. My name is G. Brown and I requested to speak today in support of the reports brought forward by city of Burlington community planning and legal staff recommending use of municipal land for affordable housing development by Indwell.

01:15:50
I stand before you today, but I do not stand alone. Reinforcing and supporting this sharing are groups I’m aligned with, including the Canadian Alliance and Homelessness Faith Network, the Society of St. Vincent Depal National Housing Committee, the Faith Leaders Group of Hamilton, and Halton Region’s own growing faith network.

01:16:09
Some members who are with us today. Together, we are residents. We are voters. We care. And humbly and hopefully effectively, we strive to deliver a strong voice for so many of our neighbors who have lost their voice. Society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members. This quote and versions of it are accredited to Aristotle, Gandhi, political leaders, popes, and others.

01:16:37
I’m grateful for this opportunity today. As we witness turmoil in other parts of the world, we must recognize and be thankful for the rights and privileges we have locally and throughout Canada and our responsibilities inherent with these rights to learn from our experience and to make the right choices moving forward for society.

01:16:58
Have you ever been in a position where you’ve realized you have a solution that gives people in need, a new lease on life, a brighter and more hopeful future, purpose, and passion? And that same solution will save taxpayers millions of dollars. Indwell has that solution.

01:17:15
For over 50 years, they have evolved a formula for housing and housing supports that have proven to lift those they serve out of the glaring and growing gaps of our social safety net by by providing them with a dignified, affordable home and surrounding them with the outreach supports and services tailored and customized to help them be the best versions of themselves.

01:17:40
I’m not an employee nor a volunteer with Indwell. I’ve had the privilege of getting to know Jeff Graham and their amazing team over the past decade. My respect for their secret sauce of housing and customized housing supports and their ability to convert underutilized or even derelic properties into wonderful homes for our neighbors in need who flourish once they are housed and supported is truly admirable and verges unremarkable.

01:18:08
Allow me to add context to support my view. In 1990, as homelessness became blatantly apparent in Kitchener, where I had lived for almost a decade, I spoke with housing agencies and through their guidance purchased a rooming house and opened a home for homeless. Our model was and still is abstinent and spaced.

01:18:30
Congregate living assured residents of a bedroom they could lock and call their own with shared living room, dining room, kitchen, and bathroom. Within two months, we had 16 women in our home. and I quickly realized how much having a fixed address changes everything for each and every one of them.

01:18:45
We set the deeply affordable monthly rent at 3.90 a month for those in on Ontario Works. What saddens me most is that here we are 35 years later and Ontario Works rent is still 390 per month. There is a need for a guaranteed livable income in our society. Let’s hope we uh move people out of poverty.

01:19:08
While I did my best to support our residents and help them navigate the system, I often fell short. I quickly realized investing in the building was only one part of the service required to help them in their journey. That came to light in the first weeks of operation when somehow when I somehow found a way to talk a young resident out of considering suicide.

01:19:30
Through the grace of God, Kim evolved to find friendships with her new home and she successfully transitioned into the community after a period of time. Indwell’s proven formula not only creates the optimal living environment based on the needs of the community. They also add the trained social workers and professionals ready to help residents journey through the realities of their lives one day at a time.

01:19:52
This leads to better lives, stronger, more vibrant communities in and around their buildings, and as a result, a healthier society. Indwell has a track record of success in Hamilton, KW, London, Missaga, Simco, Niagara, and elsewhere. I we I’ll include our team here are so pleased that the city of Burlington will now benefit from their expertise, passion, and compassion for individuals in our communities in similar and innovative ways.

01:20:26
My wife and I now operate other congregate living homes for homeless in Oakville and Hamilton. The strong relationships that form among the residents of all these homes is amazing. And I’m always humbled by how those who have so little are willing to share what little they have with others.

01:20:40
One of the residents in our men’s home was offered a one-bedroom apartment after waiting several years on the housing wait list. Rick chose to reject the offer and to remain within our congregate home, saying that the network of friends who he could interact with throughout his day was priceless.

01:20:57
Sadly, Rick died of cancer a year later. But he did not die alone. The impact of the friendships and bonds that form between people we live with, whether it’s by choice or sometimes by circumstance, can’t be reinforced enough. We all need to be connected and Indwell strives for that connection by building communities within their properties and throughout their neighborhoods across southwestern Ontario.

01:21:26
For all taxpayers in the room, I offer I think we all are uh we I offer another perspective for your consideration. Two years ago, when I was preparing to transfer the operation and ownership of our Kitchener home to an amazing agency called the working center, management at Waterlue Region agreed that the benefit to taxpayers over the 35 years that I had owned the property had exceeded $9 million in accommodation savings alone.

01:21:55
Add to that the reduction in health care, policing, and the judicial system, and the savings could actually be more than double that amount. These savings are echoed and even amplified with Indwell’s model. Safe, secure, affordable housing is not a cost to our society. It’s an investment which provides amazing returns.

01:22:12
Three of the men who entered our Hamilton home through the shelter system who were on OW at the time are now working full-time. Two of the women in our H other Hamilton home are now working full-time. and all residents are stabilized and moving forward with their lives, happier and healthier than when I first had the privilege to meet them.

01:22:33
Indwell’s model helps each and every one of their residents achieve these same goals. In 2012, the weight list in our region had grown to what everyone thought was an inconceivable 2,000 households. Today, it stands at over 8,000. So, I discovered another solution beyond the congregate homes we operate.

01:22:52
I built several legal secondary suites over the past decade here in Burlington, Oakville, and elsewhere. Most of these affordable homes have been created for families on Halton Region’s weight list, and many of them supported at that time by Halton Multicultural Council. I got to know many of the families as I continued work on the homes.

01:23:12
The first tenant who moved into our first basement apartment in February 2013 was a woman and her daughter escaping an abusive relationship. Through her determination, she was able to transition to market rent housing very quickly, actually, and set an example for her daughter. Today, she works full-time and lives here in Burlington.

01:23:33
Her daughter is in post-secary studies. Affordable housing with customized supports works. A couple of months ago, I had to go in for a bone density scan. I heard my name called, and as I walked down the hall, a medical technician greeted me. I recognized him and he knew me. He was one of our first residents in a home just north of Costco here in Burlington.

01:23:56
At that time, he and his wife had moved in with their infant and another child on the way. He was driving Uber, but he was studying to be an RMT. And during his time living in our home, he got that accreditation. And then, from what I learned the other a couple of months back, he then studied for his medical technician certification.

01:24:16
and he proudly shared a recent photo of his wife and their two teenage daughters. Now, um the affordable, supportive housing he received while driving Uber allowed him to focus on his studies, on his dreams, and on lifting his family out of poverty. >> You just have one minute remaining. >> So, yesterday I saw the the the property at Waterown Road. It’s amazing.

01:24:36
It’s going to be a future for individual living there and it will benefit generations to come in ways that we can’t even imagine. I know all of you study and read and hear a lot of statistics, but I thought for 10 minutes it would be good to share some stories of people who have lived and grown and prospered here in Burlington.

01:24:59
Thanks for having the foundation of affordable housing and the supports the formula that Indwell has crafted over the five decades and have evolved to provide services to people who thought they had nothing but learned that they had everything. They had each other. So I thank you very much for your time today and welcome your questions.

01:25:20

Thank you very much. I’m just looking for any questions. I do not see any which means that you’ve been perfectly clear. Thank you for joining us today. >> Thank you. The next delegation will be Brian Dean, Beth Norton, Barry Glazier, Burlington Downtown Business Association. They will be joining us in person to speak regarding strategic parking framework for downtown Burlington PWS0526 with Brian joining us.

01:25:51

Yes, thank you, Chair. Good morning, uh, committee. Uh, I would like to recognize my co-delegates just with a simple wave of the hand. uh they have agreed to join me at the podium should committee have any questions of our delegation. They include Barry Glazier. Barry is the owner of the Martini House restaurant on uh Elizabeth Street, a member of the downtown parking advisory committee to this council and a member of my board of directors.

01:26:13
Uh we decided not to bring the entire downtown out today, but also Beth Norton is the owner of Specs on Pearl at Village Square and joining her is the co-owner of uh Son of a Peach Pizzeria, Kim Nadhernie, also at Village Square. We are here today uh chair to table recommendations from our board of directors to you.

01:26:33
Our board acts as you know as representatives of the small business community uh but importantly for the purpose of the current report as funders to the defined parking area fund. As stewards of these funds, we have an important role to play to guide committee to a series of recommendations from our board that we think will more closely align our investments with the needs of our business community.

01:27:00
And you’ll see we have a short PowerPoint presentation as a supplement. Slide, please. Since the enactment of the defined parking area levy in 2007, the commercial property owners in the downtown have been steadfast contributors. Approximately $273,000 per year over the last almost 20 years. You can see the math on the screen there.

01:27:28
The levy is assessed against commercial property owners within the defined parking area in lie of those properties being required to provide their own on-site parking. Our levy is revenue to the district budget and it is blended with other revenue streams like permits and fines and daily fees. After expenses are netted out, chair, the remaining revenue goes into the defined parking area reserve fund.

01:27:58
And that fund stands today at approximately $12.5 million. You’ll see how this is illustrated across the three portfolios of the reserve fund. But our levy chair is not assigned to a particular expense. It helps to fund the renewal of the parking assets downtown as well as the growth.

01:28:21
The staff report you’re considering today correctly outlines a series of short, medium, and long-term strategies, including projects that will compete for these reserve fund dollars. So, we’re here today to identify just one that we think is of significant importance as a funer to the program, and that is the building of long-term parking supply east of Brand Street.

01:28:50
You’ll find this identified in the staff report on page 14 as a long-term goal. We’d like to see it elevated to a shortterm goal and that is the primary purpose of our delegation today. Our board submits the following recommendations for committee’s approval. Slide please. for your approval.

01:29:14
Recommendation one, that committee of the whole approve the strategic parking framework for downtown Burlington report as presented to you today. Recommendation two that facility design and construction schedule for a public off-street parking facility again east of Brand Street be submitted by transportation services as a capital budget request in the 2027 budget in preparation for 2028.

01:29:46
Third recommendation that the city of Burlington’s finance department, excuse me, be directed to conduct a detailed financial analysis to confirm long-term affordability, reserve capacity, and overall sustainability of the downtown parking system in order to support the expedited planning, design, and construction of new off- streetet parking supply east of Brandt.

01:30:14
And finally, chair, that this detailed financial analysis be reported back to the the downtown parking advisory committee and to the board of my organization. Slide, please. To bring this into context, this is an excerpt from the city of Burlington’s 2026 approved budget. It was submitted by transportation services in support of future parking structure downtown.

01:30:40
Subject to council approving the report that’s before you today. You’ll see that there are no funds allocated in the current capital account for a new parking structure. This budget suggests that by the end of 2032 that there will be capital dollars available in the reserve fund in the amount of $18.

01:31:02
5 million to support the design and construction of a building. Our position is that this is an insufficient timeline. How have we come to this conclusion? We asked our business membership. We went right out onto the street. Appendix C of the staff report includes summary results of a survey that was conducted of the businesses east of Brand Street by my organization just over the Christmas holidays.

01:31:32
We’re here to share some of the key findings that our board considered when presenting recommendations to you today. Slide, please. And here they are. There is a critical shortage. respondents over 92% indicating that they disagree that there is adequate public parking to support the growth of their business over the next 5 years.

01:32:01
Significant employee impacts. Almost 70% of the respondents of our survey find that there is insufficient parking within just one block to meet the needs of their current staff, which means they are competing for those spaces with their customers and clients. putting additional strain on our limited parking supply.

01:32:22
Slide, please. Negative customer experience. We had 27 responses to this survey. Almost all of them said they would describe the feedback they receive unsolicited from their patrons regarding parking as generally negative. And here are the overall conclusions we reached. Almost 70% of those stated that their employees cannot find adequate parking.

01:32:47
They’re forced to compete with the same inventory as their customers and that’s putting strain on our poolled parking supply. The prevailing sentiment amongst the respondents to our survey chair current supply is already at capacity and it’s inhibiting potential revenue. stakeholders firmly agree that increase in finding, excuse me, increasing the supply and the ease of finding public spaces take precedence over issues like pricing structures or enforcement hours.

01:33:19
And finally, chair, addressing the availability of convenient parking is identified as the most critical factor for sustaining downtown business viability. These observations are not dissimilar to that which was shared by the consultants Stantech through their public consultations in the current report.

01:33:42
Final slide please. This experienced based feedback is critical to our board’s conclusion that delivering strategically located long-term parking supply is not a nice to have and not an issue that can wait till 2032. by expediting the request for the city of Burlington’s finance and transportation services to conduct a detailed financial analysis and report back.

01:34:09
We are very supportive of a handful of strategies that may help to generate additional revenue in the short term to reach that goal. Our insistence to expedite the building of new parking supply is not new to this council. I’ve been here several times and most recently as this council was considering a mixeduse development on Old Lake Shore Road, we waited into that discussion with a similar set of concerns.

01:34:38
Our rate paying members fully understand that this is a pulled parking asset. We do not own it exclusively. It needs to be shared and it will continue to be a balancing act between the needs of our growing community and the existing retail businesses that are seeking prime parking.

01:34:53
This is in our view an urgent matter. That concludes my portion of the delegation chair. I’d be pleased to welcome my co-delegates up should committee have any questions. >> Thank you. Just looking to the board. I’m going to invite councelor Charman first followed by Mayor meard. >> Thank you very much. Right. >> The microphone if needed.

01:35:18

Good morning to everybody else. Listen, I we’ve been hearing about parking shortages for a long time. We’ve seen this coming. Um but the data that you just provided us from the surveys of your members suggest the crisis is now >> um just at the time when we have limited growth uh because the collapse of the condominium um development industry for the time being.

01:35:40
So presumably then if you do a look forward into what that curve of new buildings would look like, you would have an even stronger argument. Can you comment on that? >> I’ll start. >> Perhaps it’s important to clarify this is a self-funding model. So the 185 that we’re talking about is anticipated reserve fund revenue available to the horizon of 2032.

01:36:05
Public parking need be available to the public, but it need not be available on publicly owned lands. There is a limited supply of surface parking lots east of Brand Street that could be easily identified without significantly taking that out of the equation for two plus years, sort of crippling the businesses in that area.

01:36:26
Part of the scope of the study was to also explore opportunities east of brand on privately owned lands. I’m not going to comment on what those may or may not look like, but I will suggest that it will absolutely require a partnership between the municipality, the downtown parking advisory fund, and either public or privately owned lands to build a parking facility east of Brand Street.

01:36:51
I don’t want to suggest that the challenges before the development community are not relevant, but they’re not withstanding our goal to expedite this with money we already have. >> Okay, thank you for that. Uh, second question. So, in the event that we don’t do anything until another 20 years, 10 years, how do you see that affecting life in downtown Burlington? >> Please, I’ll jump in.

01:37:18
Um, >> right to the microphone. >> See, um, everyone knows me. I’ve been on this in front of you guys before and over this. So my my concern is, you know, the future of what’s coming our way. Um the Pearl is a prime example of what it did to us. It probably is dominates our problem right now that they’ve crushed us pretty hard with with the success of their facility.

01:37:38
We all are well aware of the waterfront property. It’s a matter of time when that that that unit does the same thing. and the gentleman that owns that, we all know what he’s about and how how things will get approved and what angle he’ll go with OLT and we’ll be fighting tooth and nail with them to what we will be allowed and that alone will crush the community as well.

01:38:00
Adding two 200 plus cars in my opinion is what Pearl’s doing. Um, and for us, we see it. So, we’re now fighting uh one of our main players downtown. All the little guys are fighting for the low parking that’s available. So, the future is what concerns me. We’ve already we’ve already approved, you know, new residentials with minimal parking.

01:38:19
So, we’re curious where that’s going. It’s not even as much as the residents. It’s what’s going into the commercial spot that’s going in the base. And in most cases, by the looks of it, a lot of them are shooting at the restaurant scene. So, that is not equated into the 6,2 whatever it is, you have another 150 seat restaurant, which we survive on destination.

01:38:38
Everyone here, I mean, we our destination includes wards. Everyone comes downtown. Everyone needs to use the parking. So I I survive on destination parking or destination customers and all the new development is going to add ex definitely add um pressure with you know demands and you know I know the new one on on lake what is it the lakeshore property he’s already arguing you put it on hold I believe he’s going to well already so again he’s already pushing that he doesn’t agree with the the rules and the parking and he’s now going to do that again so we’ve this is seems to be coming at us. I don’t I don’t want to argue that what was pushed on the the new residential development here, but it seems to be that could be the future of what’s coming at us. And if we’re not ahead of it, I think it’s going to be a big problem. Sorry, >> councelor. Perhaps you benefit also from hearing from other voices east of Brain Street to your question. What happens if nothing gets built?

01:39:37

Uh Beth Kim and please introduce yourself. >> Hi, my name is Kim Neternney. Thanks for um having us here today and listening to us. I own Son of a Peach Pizzeria as well as Sunshine Donuts in downtown Burlington. And so as an independent business owner, what’s what I really want to highlight the importance of is that downtown Burlington’s very special.

01:39:58
And the reason it’s very special is because we have per capita some of the largest small independent businesses. And those independent businesses rely on destination customers. Like Barry had mentioned, we have a lot of customers on our base that comes from a lot from Toronto and Niagara.

01:40:18
Burlington seems to be the middle uh meeting place now at our golden horseshoe. And in the population growth, if you’ve seen in the last five, six, seven years as I have, it has always been a problem parking. So even before our condos were all built and now all the condos that have been approved and that are going to be built, waiting six to eight years for more ample parking as population continues to grow is a constant struggle for business owners like myself.

01:40:52
Every day we hear it from every population from teenagers that are driving to 80, 90 year olds. There’s always a comment on parking. What also makes Burlington very special is a lot of the events we hold and with all the music festivals and everything that we as independent business owners have to cater to that also has to adhere to parking and visitors.

01:41:18
So as tourism goes up, population goes up. There’s no infrastructure that supports our public parking at this moment in time. And I don’t think there will be an issue with any client or customer that comes to downtown Burlington to pay more. Every parking lot has gone up. There has been no complaint about the actual monetary financial effect at all.

01:41:43
It’s always about space. So I just want to stress because downtown Burlington is special in itself. independent business owners are at the front lines constantly dealing with this issue. So if we make this as urgent as we are expressing on every meeting and every committee, I can’t tell you enough how important it is not only for the livelihood of us but our colleagues and our employees as well.

01:42:14

Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, please introduce yourself. Councilor Charman’s curious to know what happen if public parking supply does not get built in the next 10 years impacts on your business. >> Yeah. Good morning everybody. Thanks for having us. Um it’s not a new problem. I opened my store 23 years ago and for 20 of them it’s been pretty much a constant.

01:42:34
If you you could come in sit two hours any day of the week and it’s going to be the first comment out of probably the first 10 customers mouths. So, I think the need is is been there for a long time, but now it’s getting worse and we don’t want to move out of downtown Burlington. Love it. And I think we add a lot to the community down here.

01:42:52
Um, has been a consideration because I have customers call and they’re like, I’ve circled around three times. I’m going to hope to get there next week and it’s getting exponentially worse. So, I think if we can do something sooner as opposed to later, you’re going to see the vibrant community of downtown thrive still. >> Thank you very much, Cherry.

01:43:10
I have a followup on one of the comments that was made if I might ask it. >> Sure. >> Thank you very much. Uh Brian, you mentioned uh sorry Barry, you mentioned destination and and you know we’ve got coming up today uh the destination stewardship report from you know your partners at BEDT and you know the amazing work you do on um you know TA Bington things like that.

01:43:31
Is that going to just compound the problem if we bring in this wonderful new destination stewardship program and without having thought all that through >> well let me start you go >> no it is a program that’s that includes a number of strategies we’re highly supportive of it have been have been participants of it it’s a matter of how we manage future uh destination audiences so to me I look at a strategic planning document that will take into consideration what our infrastructure is what we can support as well. So I I don’t see it frankly counselor as compounding. I see it as better managing the assets that we currently have and being able to address, look after, uh pitch for um special events and accommodations and sports features and stuff that can be accommodated in a downtown setting uh with the knowledge that it’s a highly walkable community, but also we’re welcoming people with vehicles. So, I don’t see it as an

01:44:30
elaborating factor personally. I see it as one that uh takes into strong consideration the downtown um conditions. >> Sorry. >> Thank you very much, >> Mayor Reedward. >> Thank you, Chair. Uh thank you all for being here. Um my question, yeah, you mentioned some of the uh developments that have been happening on the east side.

01:44:54
Both you and and Barry mentioned the old Lakeshore Road one. >> What impact uh do you think the residential uh developments that are going in there’s there’s quite a few of them in the east end there? And that’s where uh according to our report um is where the pinch point is. What do you think the impact of those and the limited supply of parking provided in those is having on this issue? >> You can start.

01:45:20
Well, I guess we’re all guessing a little too because the the program was put together saying no one’s going to need cars anymore. Everyone’s going to do this. It seems to be uh an issue that I’m not 100% agree on. Um every time we uh this this one we’re built this that’s going to open up with a rental property.

01:45:37
It’ll be interesting to see the impact of but I mean every condo even the de uh retailer real estate agents are struggling to sell these if they don’t have a parking spot. So people, cars are still part of us. I don’t know. We’re never I don’t think we’re going to be a metropolitan city where the transit’s going to take over or we’re just going to rely unless that the city believes that you’re only going to rely on the downtown residents to survive.

01:45:59
But it’s all the stuff that comes with the development. Like like I said, the bottom of that one across the street is going to be a restaurant. There’s no doubt. I would be extremely shocked that if it’s not 100 seater, there’s 100 seats and plus employees plus guests. Where are they coming? So we’re are you areas was that put in the formula? I don’t know if it was even put in the formula.

01:46:20
Everyone’s saying everyone’s going to do transit and so on. So I think it I think it’s a bigger problem than you know uh we’re actually thinking. I I believe that you know people are going to take their own car. Uber’s definitely saved the downtown especially late night. Um it’s a big big component to saving getting people home.

01:46:38
Uh but I don’t think it’s it’s going to stop what’s going on and people are driving here to enjoy what we offer. we we have a report that says we are the restaurants are way out there. So, congratulations to both of you. Uh my second question is around uh again this is the data from the report on page uh five of the report 152 of the uh agenda and it it really does focus in that uh systemwide there might be supply but there’s localized pressure points and um east of Brandt 90% utilization during peak periods but the waterfront garage which is close by is 30% utilization during the same period. And so I’m just wondering um uh I know one of your fellow restaurant tours uh Craig Qualchuk had his Walk a Block campaign. Uh how do does that uh is there a way that we can encourage people to use some

01:47:36
of that uh capacity in the short term outside of building a new structure, let’s say, or or building one in the ground floor of a new development in the East End? Yes, there’s always opportunities to partner to have a walk a block campaign and to bring to light how walkable the downtown is that vehicle is not always the very first choice.

01:47:58
What the consultants concluded that you were quoting also indicated a very clear understanding that the distribution of public parking in the downtown is not even. So, what we have is kind of a lopsided scenario west of Brand Street with only one long-term parking supply that is there to feed those that have long-term parking less, largely business and property owners in the downtown core.

01:48:25
Um, as we move further to the east, we have less dedicated supply. So, in the end of the day, you’re not wrong in the conclusion that it’s appropriate for us to always be mindful and to to always share with folks like we do when special events come. You could bring your car, but you really should get on the shuttle.

01:48:48
There are opportunities to map out uh the walkability of the downtown. Cycling, we’ve got a variety of investments that the city has made. Those are fantastic in the summer months. Mayor, >> when we start to get into the shoulder season, it’s vehicle first and we find ourselves right back to the limited supply.

01:49:06
So, yes, it is appropriate for us and others to create a narrative to let people know there are alternative forms of transportation to get to and around the downtown, but I think if we’re not consistently building the supply for the other six months of the year where it’s not as easy or appropriate, we’re going to find ourselves short-handed.

01:49:24
And that’s where we are today. >> Thank you. Councelor Bentia, please. >> Thank you, Chair, and uh thanks for uh for being here. I certainly understand uh what you’re going through. Um you mentioned uh destination um downtown, whether it be retail, whether it be restaurants. Um what is your estimate? What what do you think you lose in the downtown area in terms of actual parking spaces? Is there a a sort of a number like a 100 or 200? Is there is there something that we can point our fingers at and say this is what we’re losing? And the reason why I’m asking that is the hotels have valet parking. >> Yes. >> And they charge $35 for that. They take my car and they’ll park it in front of

01:50:22
somebody’s restaurant. >> We need some numbers. How do you think we can get those numbers if we want to continue with this urgency of building something? >> Perhaps the first step is to look at the performance of the only downtown long-term parking supply we have. So that building on Locust Street was built in 2003. Cost $15 million.

01:50:42
That’s5 $8 million of that was directly from the funds that had been acrewed through the defined parking area. 6 million was a debenture advertised over 15 years by the region of Halton. If another building of that size were built east of Branch Street, it would take immediate pressure off of the current surface lots.

01:51:11
the municipality. To the mayor’s earlier question, an effort to kind of quantify some of the issues. Of course, we want people living downtown. There’s no two ways about it. That’s the best downtowns have people living and working there. That’s the highest functioning and we’re very blessed with that.

01:51:26
Any development that comes forward, residential development that cannot meet its own parking supply and demand needs on site is one less spot from our poolled parking. It’s one less spot from a visitor who’s staying overnight. It’s one less spot from someone who wants to downsize but still needs an extra vehicle. So, it’s actually Angelo, it’s a slow erosion.

01:51:52
It’s a slow erosion of the poolled parking assets. And that’s what we’ve been concerned about with specific concern to the application for the mixeduse hotel on Lakeshore Road. Our tact wasn’t yes and it wasn’t no. Do we need a use like that? Of course we do. Good functional uses require mixed use. Our concern was that the needs the parking needs of hospitality are much much different than that of our existing retail.

01:52:20
So our request to committee at that time was to open up the the bylaw and to review the fact that all commercial is not built the same and should not suffer the same exemptions. So we’re sort of coming at the slow erosion in little bits and pieces. I will tell you the recommendations in this report are very progressive. They include everything from surge pricing that may have, you know, varying rates depending on occupancy to the fact honestly we are leaving a boatload of money on the table during special events.

01:52:56
It’s that simple. Come down and see everyone who has space is selling it out of their yard and our garage is free. So, we clearly need strategies to build faster and more more predictable revenues to build uh future parking supply. I hope that answers your question, Angel. >> It does. Thank you very much.

01:53:15
Uh my second question has to do with uh I agree 2032 is too far away, not just for businesses downtown, but for people from outside of downtown coming into the city in terms of vibrancy. You you talked about uh strategy, >> developing a strategy >> in your downtown parking group. Have there been discussions about having a roundt discussion with business people, developers, private people, obviously the BIA and municipality to say we need to find a solution.

01:53:53
Here’s our timeline and it’s got to be built by or developed by this and let’s sit down at the table and nobody leaves till we have some solutions. Yes, we were just waiting for one thing. This report council has asked for a quantitative analysis. No more conjecture, no more anecdotes until we were prepared to understand the task before us.

01:54:20
If this the approval is met by committee today and subsequently council, that’s the arsenal we need. And if we’re successful in elevating before this committee a request for expedited building of the garage, I’ll take a meeting next week. Let’s start the walkabout. We know where we want it to go.

01:54:38
We’ll have a lock on what those dollars are going to be. We’ll figure out who the partners are that are required to deliver it. We just couldn’t do it in the absence of this report. say, >> please do. >> Everyone, I mean, I’ve been joined this for 10 years, the parking thing, and we’ve been I’ve been in front of Maryann and I have been in front of each other for ever since that.

01:54:59
We also recognize the downtown community was on the deathbed probably 15 years ago. Uh there was, you know, half the village was more than half was empty. The downtown Brand was a disaster. Everything was a disaster. The whole the whole town has now become a quite a bit more vibrant. There’s a lot more going on.

01:55:19
We’re also looking at probably 40 bucks a square a rental. So the the actual rental property for the for the I mean we’ve all got leases, but the leases are now getting to the point where they’re becoming, you know, elite price point. Um I think the problem that hands have been tied these conversations of like this is what we got to do.

01:55:37
I mean I’m a business. I just think everything can be done tomorrow. I know it doesn’t work that way, but I mean I know the building department’s hands are tied that they can only do so much because they’re they got to follow codes and whatever. I think we need these open conversations. This report was important to to say it’s not just Barry bitching.

01:55:52
There is a problem and now there is a problem that we really should recognize as a group and sit down and come up with solutions. I’ve had I’m I’m connected enough I’ve met multiple builders that said they would be more than willing to do stuff, but it’s not it doesn’t seem to be a an equal conversation on both parties.

01:56:10
It’s the builders are greedy. The city is not open. They’re not nobody. And you know, it’s like we got grounds in the shovel, shovels in the ground. Let’s just make it happen. We needed we need to make these things work. It we have to step outside the box. I get it. We don’t own the property.

01:56:25
If we did own the property, the builders own 99% of the property. So, the property that we need to find to put this is going to be there’s only a couple dots that we know that it could possibly go or we have to partner in with them. I know there’s a conversation with one of the builders that they’d be willing to have this conversation, but it’s way outside the box and we have to open our mind to what that’s going to be and it’s an investment that we have to think about how to protect the future.

01:56:48
We do have a vibrant city, but all we’re doing is protecting what it used to be and all the parking is only supporting that and everyone else is struggling. That pie has to grow keep growing to support all the new injections and all the new restaurants, all the new retailers are going in.

01:57:03
It cannot just be held by the residents. It has to be hand handled by volume and other than that you’re just going to watch everybody slowly tip over. A couple guys at the new the new I call it the the new guy on the block will you know he’s winning cuz I’m I’m the I’m not new. I’ve been here 25 years so I’m competing with brand new.

01:57:18
So all that kind of stuff. So if the mind has to open of what has to happen now this is a this is an example. Now we’ve we’ve proven that there’s a problem. Now, we have to sit down in a room with with people that know what they’re doing and how do we build this city because in 10 years or one or five years, if these guys start breaking ground when the economy changes and be aggressive like the I know all the builders want to do, we’re going to be we’re not going to be able we’re not going to be able to handle what’s coming at us as for parking. >> Yeah. >> Sorry, Kim. Again, just wanted to bounce off what Barry was saying. I completely agree with everything he’s said, but we have to remember that, you know, as Brian’s writing this down and as leaders in this community and businesses, we are solution- based every day. So, we have to make a series of decisions as individuals every single day. And these are one of those decisions that really sets president and it affects not only the community at large, but us as business owners as well. So I want to

01:58:18
take you I want I hope that you take that into cons consideration and the urgency of this matter because of that I am unsure about the past conversations as I’m new to this but I am unsure about the past conversations that’s been had as me Barry’s mentioned now for over a decade.

01:58:33
Um here today though as a part of this uh conversation the urgency is real and when I moved here 12 years ago it’s I saw a vision and I was unsure of what the city’s vision was but now we are here the vision has arrived and it’s only going to grow making lists in magazines for the entire nation number one city to live it takes president so there’s a actual huge community at large pressure as all to put our very best foot forward given that the city the in the golden horseshoe is now a focal point of a great city and a great place to live and you’re only going to open the doors further with building and infrastructure and the new generation is going to come and want to live here and they already do. So thank you. >> Okay, I know there’s at least two more questions. I’m just going to ask people

01:59:33
if they want to take a bio break to go because we didn’t have a natural break. You had your beginning of your delegation that I thought I could squeeze in before a break. So, if anyone wants to just get up and go. I don’t know, clerk. Is that okay? Can I just say that? >> Yeah.

01:59:49
If you want to take a bio break, go. We’re just going to continue with the with the delegations instead of forcing a whole pause at the moment and I’ll do better in the afternoon. Um, next question is from councelor Gry.

02:00:00
Okay, speak up. >> Thank you, chair. Um, thanks for the presentation today. Um, there’s a lot of interesting parking solutions that I’ve seen in other downtowns, you know, um, private buildings using sort of levels two to eight for parking, nicely tucked away and hidden. Um, with any of the recent developments and future developments, have you explored any partnerships with the private sector on on that type of model? Um, you guys are well funded.

02:00:28
Uh, it, you know, at 100,000 a spot, you could put 125 of those in with the the funds that you have. Have you, have you explored any of those options yet? >> Yes. Um, I understand it to be common uh procedure for the transportation services department to be at the table each time uh a new uh application for a mixeduse development occurs in the city, including downtown.

02:00:54
We’ve made it increasingly important and we understand that as part of the negotiation kit or as part of the discussions when a new proposal comes forward is to begin the conversations about a 3P parking partnership. So um have I sat at the table with them? No. Uh we know as new developers come on board that we have faith that the direction we’ve given and council has supported for planning and transportation and realy services to be ever mindful of the need to consider building public parking supply inside a private um development would be an ideal way to move forward as a tactic. The problem, Calvin, is these discussions have taken place over the years with multiple applicants to the downtown and they have not delivered one net new public parking space. So, I’m not merging the efforts because I think it’s the right thing to do. We should always

02:01:54
have that back burner running. But if we are looking to change, if we are looking to put a spotlight on public private partnerships as the solution, our track record isn’t great. I think it’s a nice to have, but if we don’t have a plan to expedite future parking supply, that would be great if something were to be delivered in the next 5 years through those conversations coincidental with the plan to build parking supply.

02:02:17
So, I hope that answers your question. That’s my character is >> you can thank I mean I think that it’s because this is so outside the box with the developers. The developers are obviously here to make money. I mean, that’s a business. They’re builders. they’re doing with their thing. So, if if the city decides we want to go into a partnership, I think there has to be some kind of working relationship with these developers to say, “How do we work this together?” And I don’t think that’s ever been it’s always been, you know, okay, we’re we’re not going to do it or you’re not the city isn’t willing to ban this guy wants 20 floors. We’ll give him 25. Those those options haven’t been available. So, what we do is no and then so what they do is go OOLT and then we we haven’t done well against OOLT. I think I think our track record’s zero. I don’t think we’ve won yet. So, at the end of the day, if they know they can keep going this route, we’re done. So, that either we have a a whole new game plan as how we work with the developers

02:03:17
and say, “Look at how do we try to do this marriage that makes sense.” So, it’s going to have to be a winwin. That’s I think that has to be the process of our we you know, we brought this up, you know, the shared parking. I think it’s almost been 10 years, but it never goes anywhere.

02:03:31
It just it gets lost in the building department or the city’s attitude. Like it has to be now this has to be a new game plan and we have to get with them and decide how can we make this work? How can we do this together because we’re going to lose at every time against OLT if they if they keep doing that route and it’s proven.

02:03:49

Yeah. I you know I just feel like in the current market conditions where um it’s very hard to build right now, this could be a an an opportunity for for you guys to it could get a building started that you know wouldn’t otherwise be able to to go. So anyway I happy to explore a couple ideas but thanks Brian going to take my first time question.

02:04:11
So uh thanks for having three of you here. Uh, I know what I hear every time I visit your businesses. So, um, glad to have you in our community and it is growing. And you are correct. There’s been not even one net new parking spot in Well, I think we have a handful actually. >> How much time until it’s enough’s enough and you start having revolt about paying into the special levy? So this is an extra tax on top of all of the businesses uh the properties that house the businesses that has to come to fund this particular fund with the covenant that it would one day result in a municipal structure asset for parking solely. Uh notwithstanding all of the good efforts around bringing better uh environmental options including uh entirely funding pretty much all of the EV chargers in the downtown from this fund. Um, so how long until we start to see a revolt on

02:05:11
this particular levy? >> Why not hear from the merchants? >> I think it’s going to be rapid as our entertainment and tourism sector grows. I think it’s going to be detrimental to move on this as quickly as possible. If this has been on the table for over 10 years now and it hasn’t moved and our population and capacity for housing has increased significantly that goes hand in hand because we know every condo building is not housing every resident with cars.

02:05:46
So we are a destination and if we understand that we are a destination we need to embrace that tourism and all the events that are coming the new events that want to be a part of Burlington. every show, every every if we want to help the Burlington Performing Arts Center build more arts, the we are creating that destination at this moment right now.

02:06:11
So, if we don’t step on it and make it as urgent as it already is, we’re going to lose out and try to put band-aids solutions on everything, and that’s not going to work. >> Okay. I’m just going to ask a second question. Um how important is it that the uh request that you’ve tabled in your delegation particularly around the request for finance to come back with a sustainable plan and to help us identify what we might need to build this into at least the design or exploration phase in the 2027 budget? Um is that enough to show that there is some hope and some advancement recognizing that and I’ll ask this of your delegation. How long has it been since you’ve been waiting for this particular study? Because I thought it was going to be done in 2019. So, uh, talk to us about those timelines and the criticality of this amendment. Well, that’s a bunch of questions in

02:07:09
one. So, let me see if I can be concise. Uh, I too believe that we were going to start this process about two years ago. I don’t believe the financing was available. So for the past 14 months having been involved in the ground floor and by we I’m talking about the folks here and our board of directors as the executive team building out the scope of reference for the work that was finally done by Stantech.

02:07:31
It was a long time coming but we knew how important it was. So we stayed very close to the process and now we have the results. This is the biggest priority. When if one were to dig a little bit deeper into the survey results and hear some of the commentary from the folks who responded, it would put an exclamation point on the fact that the conversation is now.

02:07:54
There are businesses that responded that are option to renew their lease in the next two years and they’re just not sure. They’re basically saying if I don’t see some hope, some change, if I don’t see something in the ground that shows promise for me to be able to uh have a place for my next generation of customers to park or for my current employees to park, I may choose somewhere else in the city.

02:08:18
And that’s hurtful when parking is a detriment or at least the perception of of uh um a consideration that might complicate someone’s choice to move to the downtown. This is what I call a slowmoving coup. It’s been on the books. We’ve been here probably 12 times with the same mantra. We just all waited for the data.

02:08:42
More people are waking up to what these costs are, what it means on their bottom line. This is the defined parking area levy is assessed against the property owners and then it trickles down into a portion of the lease in this economic environment. Everyone is looking at their lease. So I think those dollars and the accountability for that is increasingly important and I would not have asked three merchants to take time out of their day when they could be making money to come to you and say it was anything less than a top priority. >> Okay. Thank you. That that’s the end of my questions. We do have second time questions, but I am trying to be mindful of any if anyone needs a break to to please take it. Uh we’ve kind of come out of queue of of those break times. So committee, do you want a five minute and we’ll ask the delegation to hold or do you want to continue? >> Okay. Okay. Just trying to be healthy.

02:09:41
Uh continue with second time questions. I’ve got Mayor M Ward and then councelor Bentovenia. Thank you delegation for staying. >> Thank you. Uh and through you chair, you mentioned the uh the public private partnership, something that I recall working on uh way back in the day. And there’s uh there’s some notations in here.

02:10:01
And uh by the way, Barry, we actually did win one OOLT ruling uh on the waterfront. That was good news. Um so it talks about two P2P types. One is um a like a privately owned lot during the day that might flip into public use at night. We do have that over um by the Ukrainian church area there and then uh actually constructing it in the ground floor of new developments and there’s some language in the the Stantech report around how to formalize that.

02:10:33
So do you think that and I don’t know if this is possible, this will be a question of staff, but do you think we uh should require that in new builds? Would that be a way to get everybody to the table if we can? >> That’s a good question. Well, if the current technique of not requiring isn’t delivering, then it we certainly put it on the table.

02:10:54
those agreements you’re talking about with um a privately held parking lot um over in the Pearl Street area that has what I would call kind of a wink in a handshake agreement with the municipality to allow the public to use that space is great until it’s no longer available. So I think sometimes we get this false reliance on on a relationship that frees up and provides spaces for the public needs but also satisfies the needs of the property owners.

02:11:25
You can only have so many of those until which time that property becomes too lucrative to to remain a surface parking lot. And now we haven’t moved forward advancing other partnerships that can more predictably deliver. Does that answer your question? >> Very much. Thank you so much, councelor Bentovenia, please. >> Thank you, Chair.

02:11:47
Just to um follow up and add to what the mayor was saying, I think it’s important for the municipality, the parking downtown to own the space, the parking space. Has have we done any analysis on parking whether it be surface up or underground based on x amount of parking spots that you require that will help financially and the payback.

02:12:27

I think that’s the next step. So, until we knew that we could get this toolbox approved by council, how shall I put this? I agree with you 100% the municipality needs to own the space that for public parking assets should be held in a structure, not a single use structure because that’s really not in keeping with the fabric of how we build the downtown.

02:12:51
Um, I agree also with you that the advantages of municipal ownership, if mirrored in the 414 Locust Street garage we have, is fantastic. Leaving it in private hands makes it more complicated. That garage adds 380 spaces to the east side of Brand Street. It’s also a revenue stream for the municipality as landlord. It also successfully takes office uses off of our main street brand and positions them on a side street.

02:13:22
It it ticks all of the boxes. If that’s what you’re saying, financial analyses will come down to willing buyer, willing seller conversations. What we’re looking for is this committee to tell us that we have the green light to expedite uh not only the conversations, but the revenue streams so that we can confidently come to the table with the supplier and say, “You know what? We’ve got $22 million.

02:13:47
we’re willing to debenture a little bit. What are the needs of you and your your um sorry, what is the trajectory of your space downtown? Can we partnership? And up until this point, we’ve been full of some money and good ideas. This will give us the tactical application to then have the right hand and call the right people to the table.

02:14:08
I would be confident in saying if the basket of recommendations in this report are approved today, transportation, legal, finance staff ready to go. >> Thank you. Uh I just have uh I don’t have another question, but I have done a lot of homework on this topic that I can talk about later. Thank you. >> Okay.

02:14:31
Um, with that we have no more questions for this delegation and so we will take a proper five minute break even though we’re almost What do you want? What do you guys want me to do? Five minutes. >> It’s broken. Okay. Tried my best. Thanks delegates. I now want to invite Anita Cassidy as the next delegation. Please speaking on behalf of Burlington Economic Development and Tourism in person regarding Burlington Economic Development and Tourism Destination Stewardship Plan TRN0226.

02:15:13
Thank you, Chair. Uh I’d like first of all to thank city staff for bringing forward this report and it was very deliberate in our timing of bringing this report to the agenda so that we could also speak as part of a separate delegation to horizon 2050 and how you see the destination’s stewardship plan and the larger economic development strategy reflected in it.

02:15:30
Uh so with that I’d like to hand off to Claire Green our destination our director of destination development and marketing to talk about the destination stewardship plan. >> Thank you Anita through you chair. Hello everybody. Hello, Mayor Mean Ward. Hello, councilors and city staff. Um, I’m very excited to be here today to present to you a little bit more detail on the destination stewardship plan, which is a uh robust document that you have in the package and it’s backed by a road map as well, which is a tactical plan for implementing um a vision for tourism for Burlington over the next um 5 to 10 years, including a vision. This is an ambitious presentation, so pardon my pace if I go a little bit quick as I try to get through everything. Next slide, please. Um, I’m going to try and take you through the approach for the plan, uh, our vision for tourism for Burlington, including our target audiences, uh, the delegation that came just before me, uh, is actually, you’ll find it in the third

02:16:29
key pillar, uh, which is space and enabling conditions. So, even things like infrastructure, the strategic frame framework. So the three key pillars that make up the plan and where our focus uh from a destination development and marketing perspective is today. Next slide please. So what is a destination stewardship plan? Unlike traditional tourism plans, the destination stewardship plan recognizes the importance of prioritizing the needs of residents and sustainabil uh and sustainability to make sure that we are maintaining the cultural and aesthetic value of Burlington. So, in Burlington, we’re known for our waterfront and our escarment, our green spaces, our rural areas, uh, and maintaining that, but also recognizing the economic impact and value of tourism and welcoming and being inclusive to others that want to come and enjoy these experiences as well, as well as the value that it adds for our businesses and our operators as well. Next slide, please. So what we are seeing in terms of where

02:17:29
tourism is going today is there’s a convergence happening between investment in terms of economic development and tourism as well as tomorrow’s residence and people looking for somewhere to live in terms of where they’re choosing their next location. The reasons that they’re using to choose are converging.

02:17:46
So today’s visitor is tomorrow’s resident. today’s business visitor might be tomorrow’s investor. So these reasons are choosing are converging which from a messaging perspective works really well when we’re going out and choosing our positioning and our messaging for positioning Burlington.

02:18:03
Uh so for a city that’s known for being a great place to live. Uh that works really well. Uh we’re a great place to live. We’re a great place to raise a family. Um and we have a very wellbalanced um set of attributes in terms of our location between Toronto and Niagara both from a visitation perspective and an investment point of view.

02:18:24
Um which uh sets us up really nicely in terms of our positioning. Next slide please. How does this fit into the bigger picture? uh Anita mentioned in terms of how we are setting up this up for full alignment into Horizon 2050 and the city of Burlington’s strategic plan. Uh so of course this feeds directly up into it not only from a strategic perspective but also from a tactical alignment in terms of the action plan and how we will implement it.

02:18:52
So we cannot do this alone from BED’s perspective. There are only some things that we can lead on it. Some things we can only support and some things we can advocate. These are not things that we can all lead on our own. So for example, infrastructure I mentioned or working with festivals and events or RCC.

02:19:08
So how we’re working alongside our partners at the city as well as externally as well with our operators, with our businesses, with our partners at the BDBA to make a lot of these things happen. We’re also working on the destination brand project which is creating a unified destination brand for Burlington in terms of how we’re positioning ourselves externally with a consumerf facing brand for both investment and visitors.

02:19:30
Next slide, please. Uh so the objectives again strategic and tactical. Um so defining that tourism vision presenting those directions and priority areas and how we’re going to achieve them and then that roadmap for how we will work together to both lead them support them and advocate for success. Next slide please.

02:19:53
I am going quickly so that I can get to the meat of the plan. Uh the vision statement is included in the plan. I won’t read it out uh fully today, but this is grounded in tremendous amount of research and engagement that we did with all three key groups that are defined as residents, visitors, um and businesses, uh through surveys, focus groups, uh and one-on-one interviews as well.

02:20:17
We’re very proud of the level of engagement that we did to make sure that the story that we’re telling is authentic to Burlington and reflects exactly who we are and who we’re aspiring to be as a destination. So, you’ll see that Burlington we’ve um we will thrive as a vibrant hub for arts, recreation, and business with high quality amenities known for both our balance with our waterfront uh and our rural escortment.

02:20:42
Next slide, please. So who is our target audiences in terms of the types of visitors that are coming to Burlington? Uh these are based on Environics Prism segmentation if you’re familiar with uh Environics and the work that they do. So lots of families you will see. So perhaps not a big surprise here.

02:21:01
Uh we are very popular with families primarily coming from east of us. So York, Durham, Toronto, uh these areas. We define a visitor as anyone who’s coming to Berling from from outside a 40 kilometer radius. They are more likely to stay in a hotel or stay overnight perhaps for a weekend. Uh diverse families, suburban families, affluent mature families, and diverse urban starters.

02:21:25
So diverse families more often identify as a minority group. They’re often looking for novel experiences sim very similar to suburban families who often do not identify as a minority. affluent, mature families. They’re very active, uh, almost empty nesters, sometimes still have one or two children living at home.

02:21:42
And our diverse urban starters, these are our young professionals. They’re coming to our music festivals. They’re looking for those novel culinary experiences. They’re just starting out in their careers, but they don’t have any kids. Next slide, please. And of course, our business and group travel.

02:21:59
This is a very growing group for us here in Burlington. These are our conferences, our corporate retreats, and our groups. uh very popular because they’re looking for hidden gems for those team building experiences and we work very closely with them through our concierge service to make sure that they’re experiencing something different.

02:22:14
They don’t want to go to tr they do go to Toronto and Niagara but their their groups are looking for those sort of novel uh hidden gems experiences something new and different. So that’s really where Burlington gets to shine. Next slide please. So the key pillars branding and marketing product and programming and environment enabling condition.

02:22:32
This is how the plan is broken down. Next slide please. Next slide please. Next slide. So branding and marketing. This is how we’re positioning ourselves externally. Um what do people know about Burlington? What are they saying about us? And what are we known for? So we heard loud and clear that we are known for our waterfront.

02:22:56
We’re known for our downtown um and uh we’re known for being welcoming, inclusive. These are some of the key words that we heard. Next slide. So, what are we focused on in this area? This is the messaging that we’re putting out, the brand that we’re using to position ourselves. So, I mentioned the destination brand project, which we’re on track um to launch uh this spring.

02:23:20
our visitor services in terms of how we’re curating those experiences through itineraries, our concierge service to make sure that those groups and those families that are coming know exactly what’s available to them when they come here. So those hidden gems uh working with partners such as our hotels, our operators like the RBG, Conservation Halton, as well as sales like our trade shows and conferences to make sure that we’re connecting with uh group organizers and associations to make sure they know about Burlington. Next slide, please. product and programming. Next slide please. So this is what are they doing when they get here. This is the vibrancy piece in terms of what’s available. So this is the product development. Uh we’ve also launched the tourism investment fund already which is that grant program that we’re delivering to incentivize conferences and groups to choose Burlington. Um this is funded through BEDT’s portion of the municipal accommodation tax. We’ve also just newly launched a product development version of the grant as well, which really

02:24:18
encourages vibrancy and product development. So, this encourages organizers such as festivals or markets to develop those products further. Next slide, please. Uh, and how we’re also expanding out of the downtown to activate other neighborhoods as well and working with our partners at the city to make sure that we’re servicing those festivals and events as well. Next slide.

02:24:42
Next slide please. Uh and finally infrastructure and enabling conditions. So this is making sure that everything works. So again going back to that previous delegation, parking is a great example. Accessibility, Wi-Fi, destination governance. Uh next slide please. These are great examples of what’s included in this pillar as well. Next slide please.

02:25:05
Where is our focus today as a team? I’ll leave it here, but this is where we’re focused in terms of how we’re working with our partners to get things done. Thank you very much. >> Okay. Thank you very much, Claire. And I just want to note that this is a receive and file item.

02:25:19
Uh so I will look to the board now for any questions. You might be good to go to your next one, your next delegation. Oh, sorry. Let me just state what it’s for. Your next delegation is Anita Cassidy, Burlington Economic Development and Tourism, joining us in person to speak regarding City of Burlington Community Strategic Plan, Horizon 2050, TRN0326.

02:25:57
Thank you for you, chair. Uh, yeah, there we go. There’s the PowerPoint. Uh, we could flip to the first slide, please. Uh so I’m delegating today uh next slide please. Yeah. So, I’m delegating today in support of the Horizon 2050 plan, and I really wanted to talk about our engagement as a stakeholder and how we see the economic development and tourism strategy as well as the destination stewardship plan reflected in Horizon 2050 in in many ways and congratulate staff as well on the hard work that they’ve done uh through both stakeholder engagement, through the analysis, and through reflecting back what they really heard through that. Uh so this is actually a screenshot from the uh council workshop that I think you had back in October of last year. And I think it’s a great screenshot because it talks to the engagement and the economic insights and information that went into the plan. And then in particular, you’ll see there’s a piece there around Burlington economic development and tourism strategy and our destination stewardship plan uh that we’ve talked to you about today. Next

02:26:57
slide, please. So I just wanted to talk a little bit about engagement. And so I think the engagement that’s feeding into Horizon 2050 has been extensive and it goes from a partnership perspective beyond just pure city engagement as well. So one of the things when we were working with city staff was we’ve done a number of engagement points for the destination stewardship plan for the destination brand work for economic visioning um over the last year and a half to two years.

02:27:21
This has included extensive stakeholder surveys, uh, one-on-one interviews, and if council will cast their minds back, you’re actually interviewed in 2024 and 2025 on both the destination stewardship plan and the destination brand. And then many, many stakeholder engagement points engaging hundreds of stakeholders across various workshop.

02:27:40
And all of these have been fed back into the horizon 2050 work through a report that we put together for staff. and we see them strongly reflected in what we see um particularly in the economic pillars but also across the plan as a whole as I think we talked about a little bit in terms of those sustainability elements.

02:27:56
Next slide please. So this again just a snapshot from that report that we put together for staff. We engaged resonance consulting uh they’re a specialist in economic development and tourism strategic planning and engagement. And I think if you look at what we heard through our insights and engagement, you’ll see those reflected directly back in those key insights that you have as part of Horizon 2050.

02:28:20
We are a downtown and waterfront destination. We are strategic location. Our residents really see us as a welcoming opening pla place. Uh we see affordability and access to amenities as key for both our businesses and residents. And we’re also a very livable community and people want to see that reflected in our growth.

02:28:38
Next slide, please. And I think you see that reflected back in all of those key engagement findings that you find in horizon 2050 and in particular with that f focus on the dynamic e economic growth and innovation that you see through there. Next slide please. So I think one of the pieces here is as we look at that transition from the economic vision 2025 and the horizon sorry the vision 2040 plan into the horizon 2050 plan.

02:29:04
I think one of the key gaps that we saw hindsight’s 2020 as we look back on vision 2040 is we didn’t have visitor economy we didn’t have a strong focus on the culture economy how is that driving back an integrated economic strategy and so when I look at the vision for Horizon 2050 particularly as we look at the phrase everyone that thrives and how we describe that you’ll see they have residents businesses and visitors have access to opportunity feel connected and a sense of belonging and able to live live well and fulfill filling lives. The word we didn’t have in there previously was visitors reflecting that visitor economy. So I think that’s a really important change that we’re seeing through that integration and that engagement around Horizon 2050. Uh next slide please. So I think one of the other areas uh I wanted to talk about here was the integration around the BDT strategic planning process and the horizon 2050 strategic planning process.

02:30:04
And I think again what we see is that strong stakeholder engagement and research is feeding back into integrated themes across the board. We see the city of Burlington Horizon 2050 supporting a strong and diverse local economy and championing championing local enterprise.

02:30:21
We see those reflected back again in the BDT strategic plan as we look at our vision and then also in the individual strategies around destination stewardship plan that we talked about today. And I think across the board we see sustainability as a key element in that as we talked about around not just sustainability from a climate change focused perspective.

02:30:41
Uh BDT is an active member of the climate action team of the Bay Area climate change council. We’ve got a clean tech sector strategy but also it’s really important to plan sustainably around what is the infrastructure that we have today. How does that for support the economy of the future and the visitor of the future? And then also how do we move people around in a way that’s sustainable particularly from a destination development but also from an employment perspective and feeding back into those elements that we see in that plan around affordability and housing as well. Next slide please. So I think one of the key pieces here if you look at the wording that we saw on that previous slide around the guiding principles and the objectives you’ll see the words champion and prosperity already reflected back in the 2023 2026 vision for BEDT and really we look at this strategic house as an interim strategic house and the reason for that is we’re really waiting on that opportunity as staff continue to work with council around Horizon 2050 what

02:31:41
that means how does that translate over into the new 5-year strategy. How does that then translate over into the new BDT um economic vision and strategy? And we talked a lot about uh the destination stewardship plan in the previous delegation. That is now a core integrated part of the economic development and tourism strategy.

02:31:56
And we’re looking forward to working with staff to really define what are those goals, objectives emerging through Horizon 2050 and how do we develop those through the BD strategic plan. And so again, I want to congratulate staff on a on a great strategic plan that I think is really reflective of stakeholder engagement and really reflects back the business and visitor needs that we’ve seen through all of the engagement and strategic planning work that we’ve done as well. Thank you.

02:32:25

Thank you so much, Anita. I’m just looking to the board now to see if we have any questions for you. >> That’s why it’s good to put your hand up. We’ve got one from councelor Charmin. >> Yeah, I was pushing the button too many times. it was going on and enough. Thank you very much for being here, Aner.

02:32:39
I I appreciate the conversation about stakeholders and I was just trying to figure out um the implications of changing demographics as we get many more people coming in uh arriving from uh overseas as immigrants in the next 25 years and um I know the number if you get out to 19 20 100 2000 uh it’s about 60% of Canadians will be immigrants.

02:33:03
So presumably by by 2050 it’ll be you know another 25% of our population. Uh do you think the stakeholder analysis has has uh got into that question uh sufficiently? >> Uh I think that would be from a horizon 2050 perspective I think that would be better positioned to staff. I can certainly tell you from uh the engagement that BDT did with the various stakeholders.

02:33:26
We were very much aware of demographics. That was something that we focused on whether it was through the surveys or through the direct stakeholder engagement work because we know that the Burlington of the future will be more diverse and I think you even saw that in the target audiences for the destination stewardship plan as well as we the the visitor of today is diverse.

02:33:46
We’ve got diverse urban starters. We’ve got diverse families. Those are two of our four core target audiences. The visitor of to today is the future resident is the future investor. We’re also seeing that directly through our investment business retention programs as well. Um the investor class immigrant is very important for Burlington.

02:34:04
Uh whether that’s through the foreign direct investment work that we’re doing. We had the acceleration plus program that brought in uh over 50 businesses from the Latin American market which is a core focus for us with our success there. And building on those successes uh we built out uh direct programs around soft landing support and again it’s that integrated approach.

02:34:24
So, what does your investor need in terms of adapting to a new country? It’s not just about product market fit. It’s about their families coming with them. Where is that family housed? What does that look like? We just had a CSR last week from a Japanese business that’s relocating and opening an office in Burlington.

02:34:43
And one of the questions we had was, “How do I get a family doctor?” And so, our team called up and got them a family doctor. So these diverse investors, businesses, visitors have different needs and expanding the scope of our services in terms of how we service them is part of that. >> Thank you. I will ask staff uh when we get to that item, but thank you so much for being here and for those comments.

02:35:05
Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you so much. Um just going to recognize time at this point. So, we are just about to approach 12:00 p.m. I’ve circulated some uh queries to my colleagues to ask if uh they could hold back on lunch to allow the delegations to complete their delegations today, of which I believe we’re good, but I’ll take a a little nod or a vote or a hand or a wave.

02:35:34
Thank you very much. So, we >> I would like lunch. >> You do want lunch. >> All the delegations >> just Amy. So I’m happy to accommodate any delegation that wishes to proceed before lunch. Uh and then we will take our break uh for lunch and at that time depending on how long this delegation goes we will decide if it’s a half an hour or an hour.

02:35:56
So at this time I would like to invite Amy Schnure of Burlington Green. Uh Amy, I will note that you are delegating on three items, but I will read out each one and consider them individually uh to allow for questions to be uh pertaining to that matter and then we’ll go on to the next one. So the first one is uh for Burlington Community Strategic Plan Horizon 2050.

02:36:18
That’s TRN0326. Go ahead. >> Terrific. Thanks very much. And uh good afternoon, Chair, Mayor Me Ward, members of committee, city staff, and the Burlington community. I know you’ve all been sitting a long time. My parking’s going to run out. I’ve got a sore throat. So, uh refreshingly, I will be brief on each of these three items.

02:36:41
I did tune in yesterday uh to the meeting and uh I guess I was hoping for maybe a little bit of robust conversation around the pivotal climate action plan uh that I delegated back on February 9th that was on the agenda yesterday and um it was interesting because I heard a a comment and a fair one by yourself councelor Nissan about um you know the context of the province and their inaction let’s just say on climate change and good luck to all of us and Um, fair point, but I will say that the three items are just examples of where the city has full authority to make a difference uh through a climate lens. So, I wanted to bring that uh context as I begin with just a brief comment around Horizon 2050. Burlington Green appreciates this opportunity to say that we think it’s a great vision. Uh, it’s really terrific to see climate and the environment embedded in various um areas

02:37:39
of the strategy. So, congratulations to staff. We particularly like the uh sustainable and future ready future ready guiding principle that indicates that the city protects and enhances our natural environment, acts on climate change, and plans with long-term responsibility. As a community, we contribute to sustainability by caring for our natural spaces, making climate-minded choices, and supporting a resilient future for generations to come. It’s perfect.

02:38:09
It’s a great guiding principle. Our only recommendation is that the vision statement, which is really that front and center piece that’s going to be in everyone’s face, it’s going to really drive uh the future of the city, it it falls short. It just mentions um protection of nature and we know that caring for the environment is beyond protection of nature.

02:38:31
So that would be our recommendation is a revisit of the visit uh vision statement um perhaps to adjust or replace that protection of nature with something like um where a healthy environment uh is a priority. I really think that should reflect the great values that you have in there.

02:38:50
Um and we also uh took an opportunity to review the input that was submitted by the Burlington Sustainability Committee as well as Bay Area Climate Change Council and we support their input as well. That’s it. >> Okay. >> Should I go on to the >> Yeah, I’ll just look to the board for any questions on the uh horizon 2050. And I don’t see any.

02:39:13
So now Amy, you can begin your delegation on the parking framework for downtown Burlington PWS0526. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh first of all, I feel inclined to say based on the excellent delegations earlier that Burlington Green is not opposed to parking. Um, but we’re really grateful that the author of uh the report, the framework for the downtown Burlington included a climate lens and that speaks to what Burlington Green has been um advocating for many years and seeing a lot of progress on that, but also some setbacks and how this is a perfect example of how we by embedding the climate lens in the reporting before it comes to uh committee and council members is so essential because you you can’t and I don’t think you do uh rely on groups like Burlington Green to come up at this point and speak to the relevance of when we’re looking at parking, we need to look at the great policy and guiding

02:40:12
principles that you already have through your integrated mobility plan and through your climate action plan. So, it’s bringing those together, not as an afterthought, but in your decision- making. And so, of course, we need or have cars, but just like we don’t build more roads as the one-stop solution to address traffic, we don’t just add more parking spaces.

02:40:31
And that’s not what this framework calls for, and that’s not what these kind folks call for. So it’s just making sure that when looking at that um uh framework when it comes to the actual project specific decision making is that you reflect back on the guiding principles of the IMP and making sure we remember that not everybody through when we’re looking at a triple bottom line a social uh lens as well as environmental and e economic not everybody can afford a car and yet they still want to have a destination of downtown. They want to be able to get downtown. So, making sure we have those investments and those considerations when we’re looking at parking that support bike racks and um e-mobility, active transportation, uh public transit, that needs to be part of the conversation. Uh so, that’s all I wanted to comment on that. >> Okay, I’ll just look to the board for any questions. Um I just have one. Amy, were you clear from the report or from

02:41:29
maybe the previous delegations that the difference is this is a this is a fund that is through a special levy to fund parking specifically. Uh and while it has funded things like EV chargers, uh there are other funds in the city that are are solely dedicated and committed to active transportation.

02:41:48
And so this is not a binary conversation where it’s either the money goes to parking or it goes to other more um environmentally aligned um options. Are you aware that that’s it’s not either or? It’s two different uh conversations. >> Yeah, fully aware. I would just say that the lens should still be applied regardless of uh the solution is still there.

02:42:11

That’s great. Okay, I do not see any more questions on that item. We will now move to your third delegation which will be uh speaking regarding electric vehicle charging policy and pricing options PWS0626. Terrific. Thanks very much. And uh reminding uh council or committee that um Burlington Green was really honored and pleased to do uh co-author the city’s um uh e-mobility strategy a few years ago.

02:42:38
And so we pay close attention to how that’s evolving and how we can support the actions within. And so we certainly commend the city’s efforts um thus far in doing a terrific job at really expanding the EV charging infrastructure in Burlington. Um the report’s reference to just over 500 tons of greenhouse gas emissions having been saved through the utilization of city’s EV charging sts is a really positive step forward.

02:43:04
We always look at what we’re not doing. It’s important to look what is happening and it is a natural progression therefore to be looking at the costs. you know, initially you wanted to, you know, get some of these um um um initiatives up and running and making it as free and accessible as possible.

02:43:21
um and and uh that’s been taking place with really good uptake, but there is that cost recovery piece and therefore Burlington Green does support the implementation as we’ve delegated before on this um to have fees in place for cost recovery, but we would also want to see not only those fees collected go into sustaining the infrastructure, but also to continue on this journey of investing in um an even more robust um uh network of uh EV charging. instructor.

02:43:52
So, um I hopefully that will happen. And the other piece is I was going to speak a little bit more about a a different fee model um to be encouraged for consideration, but I did have an opportunity before I came in here to talk with Tom Peddler, the off author of this uh report. And so maybe that can be um detailed later.

02:44:12
But the suggestion was really moving to where the industry is going which is even Missaga I know made a lot of changes I think just last year in not a timebased fee system for uh their EV charging infrastructure but an energy um based so your kilowatt hours. So, when you’re looking again at equity, the reality is if you have a nice sparkly new electric car, for example, you’re going to save money when you go to um a charging station with option four here because it’s going to take you little time to um charge up your car. But if you have an older model like me, I think mine’s 8 years old, uh it’s going to it’s going to cost you more. So again looking at it through that triple bottom line lens this um uh report as all the others is really valuable because then we look at equity we look at the economic opportunity and challenges but we also look at this from an environmental standpoint and we know that e mobility

02:45:10
is part of the solutions we need to grow it we need to have a good cost recovery and therefore Burlington Green supports uh the recommendations in this report. >> Okay thank you Amy I see a couple of questions for you. first is coming from Paul Charmin followed by Kenzer Nissan. >> Thanks very much for being here as always Amy.

02:45:27
Um you know as I I’m always aware that Bonington Green is a has a holistic view of everything you deal with and everything we deal with. Um it’s fascinating to hear you talking about electric cars and chargers and parking sort of back to back. But but as we see evolution of of transportation systems to you know to be more dependent on electric perhaps even going to autonomous um does that actually make our parking problem perhaps even worse because we’re going to need the cars are going to be in and out all the time and we may have different parking needs. Had you thought about that or do you have any comments on that? >> Absolutely. And in short I would just say you got a great IMP that addresses the whole thing you’re looking at. um integrated mobility. So um and e-mobility is already a part of that plan. You have a great plan. It just needs to be deeply invested in and applied on a regular basis for all these individual related issues that come up

02:46:26
to your exact point. >> Great. Thank you very much. >> Yeah, councelor Nissan. >> Yeah, thank you Amy for the delegations today. Um on this one, I just wanted to hear for sure like you mentioned cost recovery. Um, some of us around council were less interested in cost recovery, more interested in incentivizing uh, EV usage by making them free and showing people they still have to pay for their parking.

02:46:52
Um, so, uh, I just wanted to to know if do you have a pref like to confirm, uh, if you think we should recover a fee for this from a Burlington Green perspective, not from a co like not from a financing perspective, but from a green perspective or a climate change perspective, or if you do you think we should be continue to be free, or do you think we should have cost recovery of some kind? >> Looking through all those three lenses, because that’s how I look.

02:47:21
Um, I do I do concur with the staff recommendations to begin charging fees. Um, again, affordable, reasonable, peak after hours, lower rates, all of those things aren’t solely based based on financial. There is the environmental benefit. we if the city is going to invest in infrastructure and it becomes a burden, you’re going to be less likely to expand the network that’s going to support more of the growth and the more of the needs that the community has for charging.

02:47:51
Um, I’ll add too that I think reality is and I’ve done some research on other municipalities who have also taken this step similar to Burlington where you want to have that incentive, get people on board, get used to it, but then the reality hits that we need to cover the cost for these things and other municipalities have implemented fees and so I’ve been paying reasonably close attention to what they’ve seen as the outcome of that and there hasn’t been a lot of dissatisfaction.

02:48:20
There has been people who honestly are going to be more likely to just convenience 101. They’re just going to probably move more to using their home um those that have them their home car uh charging than the convenience of having them free charging in um different environments from Burlington.

02:48:39
So you probably will see um a reduction in the um usage, but um uh I think yeah, for sure from an economic and environmental and social lens, I think um a reasonable cost recovery is where Burlington needs to go. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Thanks, Mayor Midward. >> Thank you through the chair. Uh great to see you, Amy.

02:49:02
My car is eight years old, too, so we’re together on that. Um you mentioned I’d never heard of charging around uh the energy use uh versus fees. So um but you’re and I think we’re just doing the fees under option four as recommended. Do you see this as something we should be thinking about sooner rather than later and and maybe um ask some questions about I don’t know how it would work but I’m sure you do.

02:49:30

Yes. I think um I don’t know all the ins and outs of it. But I know it wasn’t um available or legal in Canada until recent years, but it’s definitely seeing an uptake. That is where the industry is going. So I mentioned to Tom U Peddler that you know there is value I guess in getting the right fee system out of the gate versus starting with say what’s proposed in option 4 and then potentially moving to an energybased fee system.

02:49:57
Um, but that being said, something’s better than nothing if you are really in a position where you need to start recovering some costs. I look to other examples where, you know, whether it be like the tree bylaw where something’s implemented and then there’s a people just get their wrap their head around it and then there’s changes and there’s that education that comes with it.

02:50:15
Similarly, you know, you could argue that you want to get your fee system correct right out of the gate. So, uh, I mentioned to Tom that I’d done some research and he had looked at it as well and it’s certainly, I think, something the city should consider going forward and that you should ask staff about because it is completely doable.

02:50:32
There’s a whole article on the charge point website who is the provider for the infrastructure for the city of Burlington and they outline a lot of the benefits of moving to an energy based fee system versus versus time and uh yeah there’s a lot of great information there. So I highly recommend that be considered.

02:50:54

Thank you. >> You’re welcome. >> Okay Amy, thank you very much for joining us. Any further questions? Thank you. Okay. So, uh given that we were able to get through that in about 12 minutes and that our other delegate has asked to come back, I’m going to uh ask committee if they’d be open to uh breaking for lunch right now and then returning at 100 p.m.

02:51:14
to complete the delegations and then moving into our uh consent agenda. Okay, I see some agreement. So, uh, we are now on recess, returning back at 100 p.m. Welcome back everyone from break. We’re

03:39:08
now going to proceed uh to complete our delegations today. And our next delegation that I’d like to invite up is Jim Thompson. Joining us in person to speak regarding the use of corporate resources during an election policy LLS 1226. Um, good morning councelor or good afternoon. Uh my concern with this policy is specific to the item on food for feedback.

03:39:57
It states members of council, including those not seeking reelection, may attend food for feedback during an election year as members of the public may not have a booth as members of the public, but may not have a booth at the event. campaigning including the display and or distribution of campaign materials is prohibited.

03:40:22
I think attending food for feedback gives an unfair advantage to existing members of council as they typically have better face recognition than other candidates. I would propose that no candidate running for election should be permitted to attend food for feedback. The idea of food for feedback is to get feedback from the public, not to promote election earring on the part of candidates and council members.

03:40:54
I also in general don’t see how members collect useful feedback by getting anecdotal data from residents at the food for feedback event. If members want to engage the public, they have many other opportunities. I actually appreciate the opportunity to talk to staff at food for feedback. It’s really the only opportunity that we get to see and talk to some of them.

03:41:18
My main issue with the event is it needs to be overhauled to collect better data than you’re getting from the dot charts. Thank you for your time. Are there any questions? First question coming to you is from councelor Stoalty. >> Thank you chair. Thanks Jim. Um you bring up an interesting idea. I don’t fundamentally disagree with what you’re saying.

03:41:40
Your comment about not available to any candidates would be appropriate. Um how do you propose I mean we have such facial recognition being incumbents. How do you propose that be enforced that if if people don’t know who who else is on the ballot? Just out of curiosity. >> Um I haven’t thought that far ahead. I just think that it’s a bad idea that anybody should be campaigning at food for feedback.

03:42:06
The idea is for city staff to get feedback from the public, not for candidates to make themselves known to the public. They have other venues for doing that. Food for feedback is an event that’s paid for by the city. uh it’s quite expensive to run and I don’t think that it should be become because there’s so many people go to it and it’s so close to the election.

03:42:32
I don’t think candidates should be able to attend and I don’t know how I don’t know how you police that. I haven’t thought that far. >> You know what? If you want to put some thought into it and send me an email, I’d be happy to have that conversation. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Well, I’m going to say it. Most of your staff would probably know who the people um who the people that are running for office are.

03:42:56
So, they’d probably be able to inform that for candidates that showed up. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Uh Jim, I’m going to ask you a question. I don’t see other hands on the board. So, um when a candidate registers, they are given an election package which contains this policy itself. might it be an option to just include um you know that you would not go to that event because it is city taxpayer funded and it is uh really intended to hear from staff at that time given the proximity to the election >> be included in there.

03:43:29

That’s exactly my point. I don’t think I don’t I don’t think it’s any candidate running for election should be permitted to attend food for feedback. They it’s a cityf funed event. is the use of city resources. It’s not there for campaigning purposes and saying that can go as a private citizen. I don’t agree with that.

03:43:53
They’re cho they’ve chosen to run for election. They should respect the fact that food for feedback is paid for by the residents and that it’s not an election event. >> Agree. Thanks. I don’t see any other questions regarding that item. So I’ll invite you to stay please uh to speak to us on your second item which is the confidential legal advice regarding a solic the breach of a solicister client privileged information Milcraftoft Golf Course LLS 2026.

03:44:29

Uh good morning or good afternoon again. The following was posted on the Milcraftoft against bad development website on February 21st. In December 2025, the provincial land development facilitator concluded their involvement in discussions between Argo and the city concerning the future of the Milcraftoft Golf Course lands.

03:44:49
Following that transition and consistent with the direction provided to our CEO, he continued direct conversations with Argo’s representatives to explore whether there was a path for the city to acquire some or all the golf course lands in the public interest. Most recently, the city formalized that interest in writing, advising Argo that the city would be prepared to purchase the lands for $15 million, approximately three times the amount reportedly paid for the property in 2020.

03:45:25
This offer reflected a serious and goodfaith effort to secure those lands for the community. The city has since been informed that Argo is not prepared to sell its lands to the city. While that response is disappointing, it is important that we understand the steps that have been taken and the city’s willingness to pursue acquisition at a certific as a significant premium.

03:45:51
Further information, including supporting materials to s to assist with public communication, will be provided to council in upcoming updates. As Ward Six counselor, I remain committed to keeping our community informed and continuing to advocate for outcomes that protect the long-term interests of Milcraftoft residents and the city as a whole.

03:46:20
Okay. I would like to particularly draw attention to the part where it states, “Further information, including supporting materials to assist with public communication, will be provided to council in upcoming updates.” I submit that Angelo jumped the gun and released confidential information before he had the benefit of receiving all of the information and the staff’s recommendations about how to communicate that information to the public.

03:46:46
So, I’m being advised by the clerk um that your commentary is um just going to be asked to be a little bit more scoped to the broader title and not in regards to individuals of council. So, could you just restate that and then continue your delegation and we’ll be sure to make sure you have all the time that you need.

03:47:12

So, what’s the problem? The fact that I’m identifying who broke confidentiality Sorry, that hasn’t been um something that is part of the public record at this time. It >> actually it is the the title of the of this thing is something to do with breach of confidentiality or breach of client solicitor privilege.

03:47:35

So, the regarding the Milcraftoft Golf Course, >> you’re going to have to stay. >> I’ll pass it over to our um city solicitor to comment. Uh thank you and through the chair and to the clerk and and to the delegate. uh with respect to the title uh as you you’ve accurately reflected that uh I think the concern that the clerk is uh sharing is that there is still a a leap or an assumption from uh the title to your submissions and the clerk is asking to not uh address or make those uh that leap rather than just to deal with the uh the title itself. Uh and and just to to committee here, it is difficult obviously when residents are delegating on a closed session report because those aren’t shared with uh uh shared with members of the public. And so really the uh delegation is difficult in the sense

03:48:34
that it’s restricted to really what’s been referred to in the title and as opposed to um assumptions or suggestions beyond that. Um, so we’re gonna take just a second here, Jim, and we’re going to thank you for your patience. So, just uh take a moment. Um, I’ve got a point of order. Um, I am also a little bit confused because we were referenced to public information that was individualized yesterday.

03:49:03
So, I I need a minute here, too. But, um, I’m welcoming, uh, Councelor Nissan to state his point of order. >> Yeah, thank you. It’s a complicated situation. Um but uh I don’t see anything in our in our closed meeting protocols or otherwise that would uh prevent a resident from speaking on a um on the disclosure that is referenced in the title of our report.

03:49:31
Um a confidential confidentiality provisions are for us as council members. They’re not for the public who is speaking to public information. So, that would be my my point of order. Certainly, I’m willing to hear from the solicitor about it, but I don’t see how we can restrict um Jim from speaking to what’s on the public record, even if it was unfortunately disclosed inappropriately.

03:49:56

Uh thank you, counselor. I acknowledge your point of order, but I’ll also notice we endeavor to not use individualized names. So, you can say a counselor or a mayor or a staff. So we do tend to to welcome those delegations in a more um non-identifiable way. So does that satisfy disposing of your point of order? >> Well, if that’s the extent of your of what you’re asking Jim to scope his uh response to, then I can accept that although I’m not really aware of that policy either, but um but uh I’ll uh you’re the chair, so I’ll let you say that if you want, but >> Okay. >> If that’s if that’s the totality of the of your concerns at this point, then I’m okay with that. I have another hand on the board. So, two of them actually. So, I’m just going to take a pause there. Um, I heard your your whole comments and it’s practice, not policy at this point because we don’t run into this very often. Uh, councelor Stoltier, you had your hand up next. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> State what it is, please. >> It’s a question to our solicitor. >> Okay. Yours was up then down. I’m going

03:51:02
to skip back over. Yes. Yes. Councelor um Bentania you’d like to make a statement? >> I just I have no problem. He’s already um councelor >> Benia mentioned name. >> Point of order, point of privilege. >> Only those two things can go ahead of the delegate. >> We can ask the uh solicitor. I have no problem with the delegate continuing with his delegation.

03:51:23
I don’t know if that makes a difference um but uh procedure are procedures but I have no problem with that. Thank you. >> Okay. I’m just going to welcome any commentary from the CAO to guide us on to if there’s any issue from overriding a counselor’s commentary to the commissioners. >> Uh through you chair, I suggest we proceed.

03:51:48

Okay, proceed. >> So, yeah, I’m okay. I’m going to start back at I submit that Angela jumped the gun and release confidential information before they had the benefit of receiving all of the information and the staff recommendation about how to communicate the information to the public. It’s not Angelo’s job to speak for the city and he should by this time know that he is forbidden from releasing confidential information.

03:52:23
I trust that the city solicitor in his report will be referring the matter to the integrity commissioner to deal with the breach of the code of good governance. Okay, since this item is on the on the agenda is clearly about the leak of information, why has the ward 6 counselor not recused himself? I would also ask why Maryanne has not recused herself as she issued a joint statement with Angelo on February 22nd on the same subject.

03:52:57
There they have a personal interest in getting reelected and they are releasing conf they are releasing privileged information without the consent of all the people that were in the meetings. Lastly, I note that this is the second time in which le legislative services has put too much information in the closed meeting announcement so that the public can easily infer what is being discussed.

03:53:22
The last time it was the aquatic services delivery issue. Perhaps council needs to direct legislative services to revive the closed me to revise the closed meeting protocol. This is one of the procedures policies on the city website that has no review by date. The protocol was passed on June 21st, 2022.

03:53:45
Normal practice would be would be to have it reviewed by June 21st, 2026. I think given the circumstances, a prompt review is warranted. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you for your delegation, Jim. I will now look to committee to see if there’s any questions. Didn’t think there would be any questions. >> You do. Yeah.

03:54:09
Actually, you you have a question. >> Yeah. First speaker, please. Councelor Bentovenia. >> Thank you, Chair. >> Sorry. Before we get into questions and answers, please be mindful that we are dealing with a closed item and that we’ll try to be as uh unidentifiable as possible. Please. >> Thank you, Chair.

03:54:28
Um, are you aware that we will be going into close session? Uh yeah. >> Okay, let me finish please. >> Okay, just use our manners guys. Come on. Please give me a good meeting >> that we are going into close session and as you had stated there will be a future comment from staff and council on this topic. Thank you.

03:54:54
I wouldn’t be delegating here if I wasn’t aware of why you were going into close session. Does that suit you better? Uh, chair. >> Yes. I have a second question coming from you from councelor Stolty, please. >> Thank you. Thanks, Jim. I’ll phrase my question similarity to how councelor Benia did.

03:55:15
Are you aware that during close session I’ll be advocating very strongly for us to release as much information to the public as we possibly can to make sure that this issue is not even muddier than what it is right now? No, I wasn’t aware of that because I haven’t seen anything from you uh stating that.

03:55:32
I have seen something from councelor Karns on the issue uh which I’m not going to repeat because I don’t know how widespread that was. And >> are you aware now? >> Thank Thank you for getting this thing into the public where it should be. And I still have the issue of should uh the mayor and uh councelor Bentovenia actually be participating in the closed session given they have obviously jumped the gun on releasing this information.

03:56:08

Okay. Thank you Jim. I don’t have any other questions for you at this time. So thank you for staying with us today. >> Thank you. This now concludes our delegation portion and I will move us over into our consent items which there are eight. Uh number 7.1 is building vibrant communities updates to recreation community and culture grant programs and policy CSSO426.

03:56:35
Next is 7.2 renumeration and expenses paid to council and appointees for 2025 FIN26. I believe there’s already a request to pull that but I will ask in whole at the end. Uh 7.3 is 2026 proposed t budget and tax levy for the Burlington downtown business area. FIN 1226 7.4 2026 proposed budget and tax levy for the Alershot Village business improvement area FIN 1326.

03:57:06
7.5 is the Burlington Economic Development and Tourism Destination Stewardship Plan TRN0226. 7.6 draft plan for vacant land condominium at 4030 and 4050 Upper Middle Road DGM 1326. 7.7 appointment of livestock valuers and weed inspectors DGM 2026. And 7.8 8 is the assumption of municipal parking operations at 390 Branch Street, known as Sim Square, lot 17, PWS 1126.

03:57:35
A reminder that if you’re commenting on a consent item, there is no need to pull it. All members will be given an opportunity to comment prior to the committee vote and then the pulled items will be discussed at the beginning of their respective sections of the agenda. I want to recognize first that I have a request to pull the renumeration item 7.2.

03:57:59
Is there anything else anyone would like to pull? Looking at councelor Nissan for any other items. >> No, just that one. Thank you. >> That one. Okay. Thank you very much. Pulled by councelor Nissan. >> Councelor Bentia. >> Thank you, Chair. Uh I have a question on 7.6, >> the vacant land condominium at 4030 and 4050 Upper Middle.

03:58:20
So that will be pulled and move over into uh the regular items. Anyone else like to pull anything? Okay, items 7.2 and 7.6 have been pulled. I will ask for a member to move the consent agenda items and then we will go into comments. Councelor Galbra has moved it and now we’ll look to the board for any comments on any of the items remaining.

03:58:51
Okay, I see no comments. So, I will move to the vote. Calling it now. All those in favor, please. Any opposed? And that carries. We will now move into our regular items and go to the first of the two items that were reordered uh in our agenda management earlier today. The first one is item 11.

03:59:10
1, the strategic parking framework for downtown Burlington, PWS0526. A consultant is with us today. Uh and we will go straight to questions of staff without a presentation. First question will come from councelor Nissan. >> Thank you. Just get things warmed up here. I’m sure there’ll be other people with questions.

03:59:36
Uh probably more than myself, but um uh and I’m sure you can expect a lot of questions about a possible new parking garage. Um, how could could you just tell us based on my reading of the report, there was there was not a justification presented for that for a Back break.

04:00:00
garage in the immediate future. What timeline and you know what would determine when that parking garage would be warranted according to staff? >> Okay, thank you through the chair. Um so can I just quickly briefly we do have Bob Williams with us from Stantech. He was our lead uh consulting support on the development of this master plan.

04:00:19
And we also have uh Liza Cohen and Matt Davis on the line as well from Stantech. So is this echoey? Feels echoey. >> Yeah, it’s good. >> Okay. So to your question, C um councelor Nissan, you’re correct. Staff identified it as a long-term recommendation. Um it’s it’s the position of staff that there are a number of we call them lowerhanging fruit.

04:00:43
There are a number of other management strategies, best practices, um tools in the toolbox that we could employ to maximize the overall efficiency and and squeeze out some more supply from our overall system. Um the report we we do know that I look at parking as as like a living and breathing system. Have to look at it in the whole downtown.

04:01:07
We we absolutely acknowledge there is that pinch point east of Brandt. The the good work that Stante did for us did confirm that there is that pinch point, but systemwide we do have some capacity. So, it was staff’s opinion that we would focus our efforts and our our funding on maximizing the efficiency while we continue to plan for a longer term solution being a new structure and or uh looking for more opportunities to expand through uh partnerships with the development community.

04:01:37

Okay. Okay. So, that that’s on the agenda as well. That’s that’s great to hear. Um would love to see a building on top of the parking garage potentially. Uh the the cost outlined in in Brian’s presentation noting a capital forecast, I think it was $18 million. Is that the complete cost of such a uh parking garage? Um and how much of that money is actually um contributed out of the BIA versus contributed by the city? >> Okay.

04:02:05
I mean, thank you for the question. and we need some help from um finance, but that number that you see in the current budget is quite dated. I would say it that’s been a placekeeper that’s been in in the budget for the last 10 or so years. Um what we do know is that the cost to to construct a stall has multiple like multiple factors.

04:02:26
Um property costs, the the design, construction, engineering costs, how many elevators. We’ve learned from our current waterfront garage that one elevator is not enough. We need to build in redundancy for a new structure. Um there’s also looking towards newer facilities like in Calgary. They’re actually designed in a manner that as the need for autos goes down, they can be converted into affordable housing.

04:02:52
The development and the way that the garage is designed is such that it can be converted to future residential units. So I can’t give a a cost because it does sway whether it’s something that’s kind of prefab really quick and dirty goes in would be on the lower end. If we want to be resilient and plan for the next 100 plus years we may be looking towards a much broader co like higher higher per stall cost but we could end up with a structure that is flexible and can meet future housing demands. So I can’t provide a cost a per stall. We do have some guidelines in the in the report. Higher end, just without engineering, without land, we’re looking at probably closer to $70,000 per stall above ground. That’s just to construct the the the garage itself. Um looking at how we’re going to finance that, we we are fully prepared and willing to work with finance and and jump into that those discussions depending on what happens today at council committee. Sorry, >> the uh sorry, I did kind of ask a

04:03:53
two-parter, but the $18 million, is that our money? How much of that money is ours versus the BIA? >> And obviously, it’s in the reserve now, but like in terms of contribution, >> I believe it’s all through the reserve. I believe it’s all through um our fees because parking, downtown parking pays for itself.

04:04:08
We don’t rely on the general tax base for that. So that money is, as Brian indicated, part of it comes from the downtown business owners, the levy, those folks that are well within the defined parking area, and then the other contributions to the reserve comes through um fines and our permit fees. So daily fees, monthly permits, all that.

04:04:26

Okay, thank you. >> Next, I have Mayor Meard followed by Councelor Ventia. >> Thank you uh through you, chair. Hi, Kaylin. Great to see you. Um uh this is was raised by the the delegate is the the pressure of some of the new builds and the condos especially in the east area where there’s 90% sort of capacity according to the report and I recall uh you standing right where you are uh during that discussion expressing concern about the most recent one that had a lack of parking and I think well what you told us then was this could uh require a new parking garage in the order of $51 million uh which is certainly more than the 18. So um does this report change anything? Is that talk talk to us about uh that information that we heard at that meeting and and what we’ve got before us today. >> Um so through the chair to you Mayor Midward. Absolutely. Development pressure on the east end is going to

04:05:25
expedite the need for additional supply. However that is delivered. Could it be partnerships? Could it be a new garage? Could we look for opportunities to possibly pull out certain land uses from that defined parking area so that they have to provide their own parking? That work is all it we are going to be looking at that with with community with planning um trying to determine should hotels provide their own parking.

04:05:46
Is there an opportunity for us to make changes? Now when I had uh mentioned and I I was quick to the gun. I was relying on the information that I received based on the Calgary model for the Calgary structure. So the Calgary structure was around $50 million that in that is that design that is fully convertible to purpose-built housing in the future.

04:06:10
So that’s really like the Cadillac. The $18.5 million that you see in budget that has been a placekeeper for a number of years. I don’t currently have a cost estimate for what a new structure wig costs. We would have to be directed to go back and look at that and firm up the number of stalls.

04:06:28
I know the delegation before us uh before me did site a number of about 380 stall garage. Um based on the work that we did with Stantech, we were thinking potentially 100 to 200 stall garage would perhaps be more appropriate. Al also depends on this the form how much property we have to work with.

04:06:49
Are we going up eight, seven, seven, eight stories or are we doing it within four stories? That all impacts the cost as well. >> Okay, that that’s great. Um and this is uh maybe a question for the CFO if I might uh chair around how um the last parking garage, the one we have uh was financed. I if memory serves it was a blend of reserve parking revenues as well as uh contribution from uh general tax base through debt but can you if you can’t confirm it now uh an email or a response to me later would be awesome >> uh through through the chair to you uh mayor I’m I’ve been told that your comments correct it was a combination of of debt um and I believe the debt servicing costs were were funded through parking revenues. >> Okay, I’ll get back in line. Thanks, Councelor Bentia.

04:07:49

Thank you, Chair. Um, I was listening to the delegates earlier and I and I reading the report. There’s I see a bit of a disconnect here. We’re talking about needing parking desperately. The report says that of the 114 off street facilities, there’s 3,500 parking spaces. It continues to say, and I’ll get to the dates in a minute, that only 54% of the spaces are still available on a specific time frame that they took this report, they made this report, which is September 20th, 2024 >> to and September 21st, 2024, which is a Friday and a Saturday. So I I see a disconnect here. I I don’t understand these numbers and their

04:08:48
voices. >> So through the chair to council, um we identify in the data collected and in the report and in the staff report that we do have an area of intensification which is east of Brandt. The folks that delegated earlier today represent the business owners uh a community east of Brandt.

04:09:05
You saw me in January standing right here. We do have some concern with capacity east of Brandt in that village square area which is further aggravated or intensified by the hotel developments that we’re seeing coming online. The graphs that you see in the downtown parking plan itself that that’s that holistic systemwide uh and it’s not a snapshot.

04:09:26
It’s based on a year’s worth of data because we do have sensors in all of our stalls. So we have a representative date of September, but it’s not as though we just took a snapshot. We did assess a year’s worth of data. We are very data-rich. This these are data informed recommendations. Um systemwide we do know we have capacity.

04:09:45
Is it where everybody wants it? No. So that’s why we are coming forward in some of the short-term recommendations really focused on dynamic pricing balancing the supply. A great example is um staff, not not just city staff, but staff to any establishment downtown. If you’re going to be there for each 12 hours for an entire shift at a restaurant, we don’t necessarily want those staff parked in front of the restaurant.

04:10:08
We would like to push them to the periphery, they pay a little less, then that frees up that prime parking for customers and higher turnover. So, there is that management piece that we think that we can achieve a bit. Um, we we can definitely achieve some efficiencies and better management of the overall supply. I understand that.

04:10:34

Sorry. Um, you mentioned the whole year systemwide. >> I’m looking at the weather when people are going out whether nicer weather practically. We’re talking summer. Yeah. You know, >> is there is there any information on that? I can ask Bob to he will speak to the data intensive piece. I’ll see and then I can help you with that >> through the chair to the counselor.

04:11:03
Uh I I think you’re asking about how did we get to September 20th and 21st and I I think I can describe how um municipal parking services oversees a wide array of sensors that provide a lot of good data. There are 767 in off- streetet lots. There are 354 in on street municipally managed spaces and then 349 in the garage.

04:11:28
They use a slightly different system. Um given that we had a workflow and we want you know we are going to have to get data at some point during our contract. Um we’re trying to find representative dates so to go out and collect supple supplementary data. So, in addition to the sensor data, which we did use again for September 20th and September 21st, we wanted to see how the privately owned facilities are being used, as well as anything that’s municipal that doesn’t have sensors in it.

04:11:59
An example are the the two waterfront lots in Spencer Smith Park. Um, and then some of the other on street locations. So, we looked at data from June 1st, 2022 all the way through July 25th, 2024. And that pointed like the examination of that data looking at multiple months and multiple days of the week and weekly profiles said Friday and Saturday are your days to check.

04:12:23
Um typically when we do parking studies we’re looking at a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, one of those days and then a Saturday. Um but the what’s driving the parking demand here is not office related. That that’s more the the districts that we typically work in. So then we said, “Okay, it’ll have to be a Friday.

04:12:41
” the we looked then at a tighter window of all this the sensor provided data and we’re looking through September and then into early October and the reasons being we want school to be in because we want all the families to be around we want employees a little less likely to take vacation so that it all feeds into the the maximum uh we’ll call it maximum typical right we’re not looking for the event burden but we’re looking for the day-to-day but a strong day-to-day demand and And um we also don’t want weather impacts like you said. So midepptember turned out really really nice. Uh it was you know on the order of 25 or something on those days of data collection. And then we also wanted to include events. So that Friday the pack had an event that was using about 20% of the facility and that Saturday night September 21st 2024 had a full 650 seat event plan. So that’s all baked into our

04:13:40
analysis. So that’s really how we went from what Kalin is saying like more than a year’s worth of data that is consistently collected which is kind of too much to digest down to those representative days. >> Thank you for that explanation. But um I’m going to ask formed this into a question.

04:14:00
Uh, are you aware that hotels are less busy in September than they are in the summer and they would take up more of the parking spaces that maybe some of the delegations talking about? >> Yeah, that’s that definitely a factor. But again, our our focus area was the entirety of downtown all the way from Caroline down to the waterfront all the way over to Maple all the way over to Martha.

04:14:24
Um, so we think generally those things sort of even out and we still get we did our uh focus area investigations and we’re not we’re not refuting the the idea that there is a concentrated area of higher demand and I’m sure hotels are feeding into that. >> Thank you for that. >> Thank you very much councelor Charman please. >> Thank you very much.

04:14:47
Um, given all that information and there’s a question of absorption over time, that leads me to have a question about how long does it take to plan and build a multifloor structure. >> Um, through the chair to you, councelor Charman, we will have to find out. I am I would anticipate it will take a bit of time because we’re going to have to secure the land.

04:15:07
Um, I I can’t give a I can’t give an accurate estimate of time. >> Yeah, it’s got to be a bunch of years. I will perhaps Scott will be able to >> uh thanks for the question and through the chair to the counselor. I’d say once uh depending if we own the land or we don’t own the land once the land is in our possession then I’d say you could probably do start to finish aggressively in three years >> to start design and construct.

04:15:35

Okay. So that leads me to the next question. you’re talking about $70,000 a parking spot, which compares to about a h 100,000 for underground parking, which is what we’re hearing. Uh presumably that doesn’t include the cost of the land. But that said, with the $18 million in the bank and the next $2.

04:15:51
5 million that we will be getting in the next 10 years, I think out of the BIBA, uh um that would give us 21 million and that would give us 300 spots. and and and could we factor all that into some thought about the timeline and the land and and maybe have some answers for council >> through the chair to you councelor Sherman.

04:16:16
Um I do feel that we need to do a we’ll do a deeper dive with the the finances and we’ll work with um finance and the CFO on that and then get something back to committee. >> That would be great. Thank you. >> I’ll take a first time question please. Um much of my questions have already been answered. Uh in the correspondence that we received uh from West End Homebuilders related to this particular item uh it talks about some of the foundations of this um forecast uh which indicates that the residential impact shouldn’t have an impact on the parking that the two can coexist independently. So the conversation like more condos put more pressure on parking uh is refuted in the correspondence from Weston homebuilders. I believe that is because there is uh an assumption that underpins the entire study of a one unitit to one

04:17:12
parking stall ratio. Now, we will remember that we didn’t complete the downtown parking um assessment or the downtown the downtown parking rates, I guess you call them. Uh but we did the rest of the city because we were waiting for this this project. Can you comment on how all those things tied together? >> Sure.

04:17:33
So, through through you, back to you. Um you’re correct. So the forecast modeling for the future scenarios, one of the underpinninging assumptions was that we were going to continue to secure parking at around a rate of one stall per residential unit. Um that’s not to say that that won’t be appealed at the OOLT and we may we may be unsuccessful.

04:17:54
Um so that that is a variable that can change in terms of how we generate our current parking rates for residential uses in the downtown. What you see in the zoning bylaw is dated. Uh it is continuously appealed because it is around the 1.25 rate. So 1.25 stalls per residential unit. Staff proactively um survey and reassess new condo builds as they come online.

04:18:22
Once there’s occupancy and it’s stabilized, we do have staff. We go out, we reassess parking rates. So, what what is in the zoning bylaw currently compared to what staff accept through the development review process is a little bit different. We do accept a lower rate in that range of 1 to 1.1, sometimes as low as 0.9.

04:18:39
That’s based on surveyed data. You don’t see the latest and greatest in the current zoning bylaw rates, but we do have rates that staff are continuously uh reviewing and updating for the purposes of of our assessment of the new developments. If we were to see development applications come in with parking rates of 0.5.

04:18:57
25 that are like condo owner ownership types of uh developments, I would expect that we would start to see more pressure on the municipal parking supply because they would be under supplying parking >> to have a crystal ball. Um, so I’m going to ask another question and it will future inform my potential motion.

04:19:21
Um, when I’m very concerned about throwing around numbers at this point um because I think what I’ve just heard and understanding that there is a huge continuum between prefab and hundredyear slash roughing in for housing, that’s a huge difference. Um, so when I originally heard the 50 million, that was a concerning number as it should be.

04:19:46
Um, so my motion is going to be to to ask for that detailed financial analysis to help confirm some long-term uh affordability, reserve capacity, and sustainability of what we’re doing right now. Do you think that the timeline I’ve asked for it before budget 2027 can be informed by the work that’s already been done so that we can get to that aggressive timeline of building a new asset? I do believe that the work that we have completed through the DPP is foundational and will support the the future financial analysis. Absolutely. The timing of that financial analysis I would have to refer to CFO and the the finance team to help us with that. >> We’ll get there when I table the amendment. Okay. I have another question from Mary Maidward. >> Thank you through you chair. I wanted to pick up on the conversation and the information in the in the report around the public private partnership piece. Uh

04:20:44
there’s the two models the private lot that flips into public at certain hours. uh we have a little bit of that happening. And then there’s the other model around requiring uh let’s say a a level or two of public parking in a new build that is commercial or mixed use. Um do we have the ability uh to require that as part of a new build? Is there any I know there’s carrot and stick.

04:21:11
So, I mean, we’ve got I suppose we’ve got carrot, but um do we what what levers do we have to actually move forward on this because it’s been there for a while as a concept, but we haven’t had any uptake. >> Sure. So, through the chair, back to you, Mayor Midward. Um you’re absolutely right there.

04:21:29
We have had these discussions in the past, and I I quickly jaw down like the medical one building, we were there was an expectation we were going to receive some significant parking supply through that. As we know, that didn’t happen. um 321 Brandt across the street. We did through community benefits back around 2017 try to secure a first level of parking.

04:21:46
We weren’t able to secure that. So we did receive cash and loo that’s going towards some other initiatives. Um back years ago around 2015 2016 we had the Saxony behind us. They oversupplied parking. They were looking to us to purchase some of that parking for through a 3P partnership.

04:22:04
At that time the garage at a capacity of 30% didn’t make sense to absorb more parking through Saxony when we had a you know predominantly empty garage a couple hundred meters down the road. I think and we do have it as a recommendation in here. We can at the staff level develop a policy that will compel us to enter into those or initiate those discussions with developers.

04:22:26
Has to be in the right location though. So I think if we can make it a policy that as new condo builds come online, whether it’s within certain areas, whether it’s in that pinch point, whether it’s just east of Brand, we would define that, but give us an ability to continue to have that dialogue and then we’d work with our partners in planning to see if there’s any other levers we could pull to help incentivize getting that those three uh three P partnerships off the ground.

04:22:53
I know sometimes that the challenge is in where they’re willing to give it to us. We have had discussions with developers in the past and they’ll say, “Well, we’ll give you some parking.” Well, they won’t give it. They’ll sell it to us on P6. We know that the general public don’t want to be parked in in in the basement P6.

04:23:10
So, there has to be like some framework around where is it desirable? Where geographically do we need it? What type of form does it have to take? have to make sure it’s accessible to the public, that it’s not gated, that we have the ability to get in, get out, and it has to look and feel p like public parking so people use it.

04:23:28
So, I think one of our one of our shorter term recommendations is really developing that policy so we can continue and advance those conversations with the developers application by application. Do do you have any uh insights or conversations with um uh I’m just thinking of Toronto.

04:23:46
My daughter’s there for university so I visit uh fairly regularly and they they are able in a number of places to secure public on the first level and it’s it’s signed and gated and all that like do we do we know how they did it with in those buildings? >> Pardon me, sorry. Do we know how or could we inquire what kind of uh agreements they put absolutely into place to make it have so we’re not on the sixth floor underground and all that? >> Absolutely.

04:24:16
And that would be part of the development of the policy. We would have that framework that these are the stipulations that we’d be looking for to to purchase that parking from the development. We would want a P1. There’s a lot of best practices for 3P partnerships that we we would rely on. It’s just unfortunate that we we did get some P1 across the street, but then as it got developed, we weren’t able to actually get it into our supply.

04:24:37
Um, but that was an example of we advocated for P1 public access, non-gated, wanted to make sure that it was easily accessible and for us to maintain it. If we have to go in be cleaning the machines, repairing machines, it’s staff time to have to go, you know, up and down. So there is a lot that we can um a lot of best practices that we would rely on.

04:25:00
It’s just getting that policy in place so that we have the ability to continue to have those discussions. >> Great. Thank you. >> Um I’m going to take another question. So I’ve had some queries from developers uh noting that we have uh four uh tall buildings on Old Lakeshore Road that are not built, but the planning permissions have essentially been set.

04:25:22
And the queries are around um what does a half above and half below look like recognizing that it could unlock capacity for at grade and maybe one floor above so a P1 P2 um but it would also extend the building height higher than existing planning permissions might be. Um was that contemplated in the report? um because I haven’t really seen any above and belows uh in real life.

04:25:51
So can you talk to us a little bit about that option and if it’s more affordable so through you to you? We see it in the atti development at 374 Martha that is a bit of below and above parking that that form we didn’t get into form or design in the master plan. Um it was really focused on what strategies can we employ to unlock existing capacity? How can we better manage our supply? Really bringing our management of parking, urbanizing it.

04:26:23
We currently, I feel we currently manage it like a suburban community and it’s time for us to really change the way and get a little more creative with how we manage that supply. That was the intent of the DPP. In terms of the form of parking um and and the height, that would I’d have to defer to planning for any of those comments.

04:26:44

Okay. My next question is this. So the report that we have uh is asking us to endorse the recommendation in appendix A which is a pretty big appendix uh which is the phased in plan. I’m wondering so what I would like as a tool to go back to the community particularly the BIA community is here’s here’s what’s been endorsed here’s what we can do uh more succinctly in a short medium and long term and the correlating possible parking capacity that can be opened up is there a way to receive a more detailed plan on what we will be achieving so you councelor Karns I have to Think about this. If the ask is how are we going to unlock more supply quickly by way of another structure, we would have to determine and I guess agree on what that additional

04:27:42
capacity requirement is. I don’t feel that we have to go back and reopen the report. It’s a master plan. It provides us at the staff level with a toolbox of a multiple tools to to to manage parking more than just the current, you know, the ask of a garage. Um, I think it would be more appropriate to direct staff to advance one of the long-term recommendations, which is securing new supply by way of either three PS or or a garage.

04:28:13
um advancing us to act on that recommendation sooner than later. Advancing that from the long-term perhaps to the short term. I feel like that would be a more appropriate as opposed to going through the report and picking out the recommendations we already took. So the appendix A is the full master plan. It’s broken down into short and long-term.

04:28:35
At the staff level, I broke it down based on staff capacity, the budgeting, what are lowhanging fruits. our short-term plan, we can do that all internally with staff within the next year. Those are quick wins for us. Um the medium-term term investments, we already have some money set aside for upgrading our pay machines.

04:28:54
We have some monies committed to some repairs at the current garage. Those are spoken for, but if that long-term supply by way of a new garage is desired, I think they would be more appropriate to try to advance that or ask that that be advanced in the phasing. >> Okay, I appreciate that. So I don’t see additional questions.

04:29:12
So at this time I’m going to ask the clerk to bring my amendment which is informed by the delegates amend uh amendment request from the BDBA endorsed by the BDA BDBA board. If you could bring that up I would >> well don’t I have to move the gavvel first? >> Okay. Can someone move the motion from the report? Councelor Nissan.

04:29:37
And then I’m going to pass the gavl over to my vice chair, councelor Galbrath. And then I’ll ask the clerk to bring up a pre-irculated this morning uh motion, but it was still contained in the uh appendices, the addendum, because it has come straight from the BDBA’s delegation. And I think what I’m hearing is that this is the way to help us uh receive the information that we need to be informed enough to pull the long term into the short term.

04:30:09
So I think the first thing that we need to do is I mean maybe we learned this yesterday is to have our numbers squared up. So let’s get some numbers around what potential um options look like related to a parking asset whether that’s with or without the existing land.

04:30:26
um do a land assessment through probably the Burlington Lands Partnership. That that’s a different process, but it’s connected. Um but really we want to make sure that we have some insights from the CFO so that we can make appropriate considerations when the budget comes up and whether that’s incremental funding like a a design concept or some consultancy concept to help inform us where we should put this.

04:30:52
Um I think this is enough to start and I and I pre-irculated this to the um transportation officer as well, Craig. Uh so this this has been looked at by that staff as well. So I think this helps us take one more step closer to getting the additional details that we need to have a more wholesome conversation on how to mechanically pull a longer term uh objective into the shorter term.

04:31:18
So, um if you would I would welcome you to comment uh if you like Kayn. >> No, I feel that’s an appropriate um direction. Yeah, Brian and I we we have reviewed it also. So, yeah. >> Are you actually handing the chair ro over to me at some point? >> I realized I just made a mistake. Sorry. I’m so >> Would you like to comment on your motion? I think you already did, right? >> I commented on my motion.

04:31:44
Thank you very much, Vice Chair. You did a great job. >> Okay. Uh, and now the Can you see hands? >> I can. >> Okay, you’re good. >> Yeah. >> Do you do you actually want the gavvel? >> No. >> Okay. Are there any questions on the motion? We’ll start with uh councelor Shauna Stolte. >> Thank you, Vice Chair Calvin Delbury.

04:32:07
Uh my question is I’m very intrigued by the idea of um also looking at budget considerations and facility design on something that does include some sort of housing. We’ve had a lot of conversations over the last few years about not moving forward with city-owned assets without giving consideration to whether affordable housing is part of the project.

04:32:26
So are you open to including that some element of that in here as part of the exploration of budget considerations and design? Honestly, not really. Um, I think that we we need to have a first piece of information coming back to us because if it’s so far out of reach like we’ve heard the 50 million, it will it will sterilize this project for another 5 to 10 years.

04:32:50
So, we do have a lot of opportunities for housing um like we just did yesterday. Um, housing and parking. I’m open to a concept I’ve asked in the past around sort of an overall vision for some of our main areas and I think that that work respectfully council strate is already being conducted under the Burlington Lands partnership updates that we’re getting.

04:33:12
They’re very much informed by pro by providing housing options within those contexts too. Okay. I will agree to disagree. I don’t think we have a lot of opportunities for affordable housing. I think if we’re talking potential conversations about strategic land acquisition, I think it has to include a design with options for housing.

04:33:29
It doesn’t have to be committed to housing, but certainly options for housing. So, I can’t support this unless it’s in there. >> Okay. Next, we have Councelor Nissan. >> Thank you, Vice Chair. So, I just uh I want to make sure I confirm I understand the lay of the land here. Um staff had this will be a question for staff.

04:33:49
um staff had a uh have the report which says this is a long-term need. If I’m understanding the motion correctly, it is building towards construction schedule to start in the short term. So that’s why we have this motion to change that and I want to see do staff stand by that the requirement is a long-term requirement.

04:34:11
you mentioned that the you know you had seen this motion or it was appropriate but I’m not sure if that means that staff support uh expediting the parking garage um into its beginning in 2027. So is that is is there a change that I’m not aware of or what’s the what’s the story there? um through the chair, you councelor Nissan.

04:34:34
No, I still feel at at a staff level I I do feel that the short-term recommendations and some of our investments in the medium-term recommendations like investing in new parking machines, increase wayfinding, um I do feel that they are higher priority and that we would maximize efficiency of the overall system as opposed to building more capacity east of Brandt.

04:34:54
Um, I think we would I I believe that we would achieve some more capacity east of Brand if we looked at our management and we employed dynamic pricing, looked at ways to to better balance that overall supply. I do feel it’s appropriate that it’s a longer term strategic initiative on our part, but I respect the wishes of council and committee.

04:35:19

Okay. Thank you. And the second question is uh if this were approved, would we be expecting a request into the budget that would acquire funds in addition to the downtown parking reserves, the 18 million that I I if I read that correctly, we have all No. Yeah, let me know how that would get financed.

04:35:41

So, we currently have around 12.5 million sitting in our reserve. Um the downtown merchants, they contribute to the levy. The levy contribution is approximately $274,000 a year. Um so currently we have 12.5 million in the reserves. We do have some of that earmarked for already approved capital projects.

04:36:03
One being the elevator revitalization, the existing waterfront garage. Um we also have a budget item that’s been approved for the new pay machines that’s already uh on the books. they’re at the end of their life cycle. Um, so we don’t have enough and that 18 million is a estimate that is quite dated.

04:36:23
So I I would I would suggest that we would have to look at other ways to not only increase revenues, but we would be borrowing on debt in order to uh construct a garage. So, just as a followup, vice chair, is there is there a route where we can find out what this is actually likely to cost uh with a range of options, whether there’s a housing option or putting tall building on it.

04:36:44
Can we just do do that? because I well and I’ll I’ll let the mover respond eventually, but um the way I’m reading this is that we’re actually moving toward we’re actually approving the garage here because it says um um in order to support the expedited planning, design, and construction. So maybe I’ll be back to the mover to explain the intended intention there because I’m I’m hearing that we’re not just getting a design, but we’re actually going to be supporting it here, put it subject to the budget.

04:37:15
Um, so I I’m not sure I’m ready to do that. Um, so maybe that’s not a question for staff. Maybe that’ll be a question for the mover. >> You want to answer that, Lisa? >> I’m wondering if um our commissioner of public works has some insight. So if I may to the chair to the councelor um I interpret this staff direction as more of a we will come back with those kind of review of those different options and then this would inform what we bring forward to the 27 capital budget submission. So not necessarily building in 2027 but we could help inform that discussion for the 2027 budget. So for example, I would take this back as I’d work transportation and capital works would also work with finance come up with different options to deal with the parking facility whether it be a garage above ground below ground city owned lands non city owned lands and that could have a discussion before council and that would help inform the 2027 budget submission and I think that is

04:38:14
where we could figure out how we would proceed on what options we look at. >> Okay. Well um thank you. I would just suggest a friendly amendment to add the word potential in front of expedited and then I would be quite comfortable uh with it uh as a as a potential you know but not as uh something I don’t want it to be misinterpreted later. Thank you.

04:38:41
So I’ll just may I respond vice chair as accepting that amendment uh with the caveat that the funding is explicit to providing parking if there is a reason or a need for an alternate and complimentary use whether that’s parkland a green rooftop or it’s housing that is explicitly to come out of a different budget because this particular budget was collected under the purpose of a of a bylaw and a levy.

04:39:07
So, open to other options, but they um they must be funded appropriately. >> Okay. Now, uh we’ll go to first time Mary Ward. >> Thank you. Uh question for staff. Thank you, vice chair, and uh through you. Um the way I understood the uh the 51 million was that it was a parking garage.

04:39:36
It was just built in a way that could at some point be converted into housing. Is that so it’s not housing on top of a garage. It’s it’s actually h the garage is housing at such time as we don’t need the parking anymore. >> Yeah. So through the the chair to you Mary board. Yes. So that model in Calgary was built in a way that it can be converted to future housing.

04:39:58
It’s not housing on top of a garage. It’s that so for example 414 Locust um the the parking slabs are on an angle right so it’s just the design having uh the conduit ready having the HVAC having it it’s appropriately sized so you um have appropriate doors windows it’s designed in a manner that can be it’s designed purposely to be converted to housing once the demand for for the parking demands go down >> that’s how I understood it okay so then my second question um through you, vice chair, is uh if we wanted staff to sort of consider that as an optional design for a future parking facility, would you need us to include it here specifically or is is that um part of design work you would do when you bring back a range of options? I think it would have to be explicit because those are also types of models

04:40:57
that we would look to partner with the uh the private private developers also right there could be different models for funding such a endeavor that would be future housing. So I think that would have to be um an explicit amendment to this. Okay. I do I would caution it would take much a longer time to turn that around.

04:41:17
We would definitely have to do more research because that’s a newer type of product, a newer type of design, we would absolutely have to research that. So I think for the intent of of the motion that councelor Karns has up on the screen as is, I think we could come up with some, you know, design elements quite easily.

04:41:36
It’ll be a little more challenging to work in that ultimate Cadillac version that’s the future um housing component. So, you don’t think you could do it by Q Q3 or you could for budget 2027 which will likely be in the new year anyway. >> Yeah, we would work with public works and uh through our commissioner we would to put more resources towards it yet.

04:42:03

We could make best efforts but it’d be very tricky for Q3 to look at that option. >> Okay, I will mold that. Uh, councelor Stoalty. >> Thanks. Um, that was actually a perfect segue to a question I was going to ask. So, is it not possible that if we were to limit the scope of the information that we’re going to get back about a parking only garage for Q3 and hopefully to inform budget considerations for budget 2027.

04:42:30
If at the time that we get this report back, if there are members of council who are interested in having information about other creative options, would that not put you back to the drawing board and potentially delay the information even longer than if we might delay it a little bit longer including it now or a lot longer by including it in Q3 >> through the chair to council still day.

04:42:59
It’s Craig Coomer, director of transportation services. Maybe maybe what I would suggest is we create a project for the 2027 budget for us to look at the feasibility so that it would be a separate project and give us the time to um do a proper analysis and come back to council.

04:43:16
So it would be part of a 2027 project to do that feasibility review. >> Sorry, thank you. Are you saying that in in to replace this or in addition to this? That is an option for council to consider in lie of this recommendation that we could bring we could create a separate project as part of the 2027 capital budget to do a feasibility study specific to the parking garage >> with additional options.

04:43:42

Correct. >> Okay, that would be good. >> Uh, councelor Nissan. >> Okay. Um, thank you. My questions are similar, just um I’m more interested in uh putting some housing on top of the parking garage rather than a conversion. I can’t imagine Barry wants to see us converting a shiny new parking garage anytime soon into housing when there’s air on top of it that we could just build on top of uh up to the limits of our official plan at least.

04:44:14
So, um, uh, is it would be fair to say that all the comments that we just got from Craig and yourself would also and Scott would also apply if we’re trying to study that option that maybe that would could also be included in the um feasibility study that we were just that was just alluded to. >> Uh, yes. So through the chair to you.

04:44:36
Yeah. If those are elements that we would want to um to consider, we would work it into the scope of the project and expand that project to consider different housing options. >> Thank you. And it was mentioned that it could be part of the capital plan in 2027 to fund the feasibility study, not to fund the project.

04:44:56
But uh maybe Craig, you could help us here. uh Craig Miller Miller, could could we not fund this out of a capital reserve uh to start the study project sooner than that so that we could get some answers, you know, and and be lined up maybe sooner than later? >> Through the chair to the counselor. Um thanks for the question.

04:45:19
I when I read the motion, direct chief financial officer, um you might want to add a few other people to this this list. You know, the way the way I interpret this right now, it’s chief financial officer, look at the finances, you got the reserve, we’re going to get a number from this report that was done.

04:45:36
We got our asset management plan. What would this look like from affordability? Conversations going into a whole other world. I don’t know if they have the numbers to support partnerships or strategies. So at its simplest form of what I just described, we could give you a highle analysis of where what we have today to build a basic structure.

04:45:56
But if you’re going to go that level of complexity, I’d add it maybe this guy and this guy to the motion as well. And and it probably to Craig’s point, it might be a 2027 project. So I don’t know if that helps, but that’s interpretation. >> I asked the question. So Craig, it’s like that was a per I’m thank you for the additional information, but the question was if we want to do a feasibility project and fund that project, can we do that out of reserves in year rather than waiting for the next capital program because that’ll be next January, February, right? So >> through the chair, yes, sorry if if council wish to do that, they could direct staff to fund in your study, but subject to availability of of uh of staff to do it. So you could give us money to do a study and then we’d have to uh >> uh get the staff to do it. So yes, we can do an inear. >> It’s either staff or external, right?

04:46:54

Okay, that sounds good to me. Thank you. >> Councelor Karns is next. >> Thank you. And uh you know, you do definitely have a compassionate group around here. Um and we really want to optimize everything that we have. And I think we have the right to all uh which is also our our Burlington Lands partnership.

04:47:14
So when we’re talking about going to find land uh we have a gigantic lot for right under our nose. I’ve spoken with the CEO about all of the moving and shifting parcels there including partners and a pipeline um and you know the opportunity to maybe even close John Street and create more active transportation.

04:47:34
So I think what’s happening in this conversation is that the vision for the downtown core is expired. Core commitment 2015. We’ve been waiting on this particular report for an extremely long time and now we’re trying to shove everything into a parking conversation like future housing, more housing. If we get a parking garage, let’s make lot five affordable housing right beside uh where there already is some.

04:48:02
So my question to the CEO is can you give us a better vision of what we should be doing here because the conversation is getting out of parking and getting into a visioning exercise. >> Yes. Through um through you chair uh to the counselor. Um yeah, we acknowledge that there’s still more work to be done with respect to uh you know, some of the plans that we came forward for city-owned land in the downtown core in particular and optimizing or um unlocking the value of some of those land.

04:48:39
So there’s there are two conversations happening. I think what we want to do is make sure that uh we’re advancing the parking discussion as quickly as possible. uh not confusing things for council. Um I I I think the direction to come back uh sometime before the budget with more detailed information around um you know the the um the financial analysis is is a good one.

04:49:04
Um staff will do that with full line of sight that there are other opportunities that council has asked us to pursue. We don’t want to cross the lines just yet, but I think there is an opportunity to make sure that we’re not uh compromising our ability to shift or or build on or add on uh prior to decisions being made on things like final design and a construction schedule.

04:49:29
So um you know I if we advance uh this direction it will be um with a uh degree of care to make sure that some of those other opportunities aren’t necessarily compromised. >> Thank you. And and then a follow-up question to that, if I recall around budget time, uh was there funding in the CEO’s consultancy contracted services uh envelope for exactly that type of work and and might that be undertaken from that funding in parallel? >> Yeah, through you chair.

04:50:03
Um that that’s definitely something that that that we can look at. There is a a a budget there. Um I I I don’t um I don’t see budget as being a constraint um for us. Thank you. >> Okay. So then my second question is can you do that separately from this motion right here which addresses the parking as deliated from a specific report and a specific levy and a specific funding group and a specific adjacent uh municipally appointed board.

04:50:34
Can you do your work separate from this work and then let them to come together >> uh through you chair and and again subject to uh any feedback that I have from uh Commissioner Hamilton or Commissioner Robisho uh I don’t see that um being an issue and proceeding that manner but uh I’ll defer to the commissioners.

04:51:01

I um through the mayor through the chair to the counselor I have no concerns with proceeding as Mr. Benton outlined >> uh through the vice chair. I think we can proceed on that approach. I just think the timing might not be um it we’ll we’ll proceed on that approach to do the best efforts we can.

04:51:21
I’m just not aware if we’ll be able to achieve everything the council is looking for on the different options by that same Q3 deadline. But we can definitely look at the parking component by that Q3 component that deadline. >> Okay. Councelor Stolt is next. >> Thank you. My questions back over to staff.

04:51:40
Um we’ve had this conversation before and I just I well I appreciate councelor Kern’s uh priority for downtown parking because that is her word which is very appropriate. the conversation about um it turning into an a visioning conversation I think is appropriate though because that’s how we’re looking at all of our big spends over the last couple of years.

04:52:01
So in relation to that and in conjunction with the fact that um there’s counselors that are going to be hosting a traffic congestion forum in order to wrap those conversations together about listening to our downtown businesses acknowledging that 100% they need access to be able to get people downtown in and out of downtown.

04:52:18
If we were to combine that with the issue about traffic congestion going in and a downtown, there are communities that we could learn from that have great options like Alexandria just outside of Washington that has the King Street trolley. It’s a free trolley that goes between a parking lot and their downtown and it gets people free of charge into the downtown and back out again.

04:52:39
Is that something in the really short term, like literally within the next 12 months that we could consider? It’s just a bigger version of what we already have with our shuttle at uh times like Ribfest and Sound of Music. Different ways that we can get people in out of downtown in the short term that will help our businesses while we figure this out.

04:52:58

Yes. So, um thank you for the question, Councelor Sult. So, through the chair, back to you. Um on page 63 of the master plan, the downtown parking plan, we actually have one of our recommendations is the creation of a special event and waterfront demand management program. So that’s not to be confused with special event pricing.

04:53:16
What this is actually is exactly that. Um we have a case study that we’ve we’ve cited that is a shuttle that takes people from other areas or more periphery parking lots >> yearround. >> Um that’s something we could absolutely look at. I don’t I wouldn’t speak on behalf of Burlington Transit. I don’t know that it would be something that would be done through Burlington Transit.

04:53:39
Would perhaps have to be something that would be done through a third party. um through a private agency, but we could look at what options exist. Uh what our case study is exactly that. It’s a the Rockport shuttle, and it was a private shuttle type of agency that did kind of that last mile connection for folks that did have to park a bit further away.

04:53:57

I think that would be great to to speed that speed up that exploration. >> Councelor Charman is next. Well, thank you for that because I completely agree with you that we need a different transportation system. But by the way, we’re going to try a pilot one. I think I hope.

04:54:13
Um that said, yes, we need to get cars off the road. Um my my question is actually having, you know, experienced in other countries um even one to the south of us that remains nameless. Um you know, they don’t have underground parking necessarily. they have very large parking above ground and then and then then communities on top and offices on top and but that rais and the reason a reason I’m making this comment now is more a planning question as to whether or not you know we don’t why we don’t do that and why we haven’t planned it and why is it not already there what would it mean to get it there because as we look down the road you know we need to have a design for the downtown and for for the city that contemplates efficient use of land and making use of air rights. >> Is that a question? >> It’s a question. Why not? >> It’s a good story. >> Sorry. Uh through the chair to the

04:55:17
council. Could you sorry repeat the question? I was looking at something. No, I apologize. I was just looking for I just went the zoning and constraint maps. my mind was jumping to, you know, what would it look like in terms of an opportunity to look at alternative city- owned sites for doing a parking structure to help inform the conversation.

04:55:33
But in terms of So, sorry if you could wouldn’t mind repeating your question. >> Sure. My my point was that we we don’t actually have above ground parking other than on the ground. We don’t have it underneath buildings and we don’t have buildings on top of parking for some reason. But we do there are in Europe and there are in that country to the south of us everywhere.

04:55:52
Um but we don’t seem to have that in our planning regime. But as we think about the down the road um in in in a world where there’s going to be vehicles coming into the parking lot with deliveries and things like that, should we not be thinking about a different future for for for uh development that includes um underground access uh not underground above ground access but below the buildings and then making use of the air the air rights the space over to to make much more efficient use of land and therefore bringing cost down. >> Uh through Mr. chair to the council. I think the short answer is staff as I understand it have had those conversations with developers over time. It’s generally been the what it would be the developers expectation would be the city’s contri contribution towards running a quasi commercial parking facility. Um there are other developers who will purposely overbuild parking. So they essentially have a parking garage with a condominium on top of it. The question is whether you wish to have a

04:56:50
shift from a urban form where parking is below grade to allowing more podium based parking where the first the second through fifth or 10th floor is a parking garage and what does that mean from an urban design and place setting exercise. But those are really exercises or thinking through the official plan review in terms of the vision for the downtown from an urban design perspective.

04:57:10
But in the short to medium term in in discussions with developers that issue has come up. They said they are willing to provide additional parking or put it on the table provided there can be an agreement as to who would own and operate it. Would it be a city facility or would it be a developerowned parking garage that they would simply make x number of spaces available to the public where they would be looking at overbuilding parking? Uh as I think as we’ve indicated very often, you know, the developers would like to build zero parking because of the cost. The market isn’t there today. So they’re looking at providing that parking um whether that is one space per unit or more. uh often empty nesters who looking for 1.2 parking spots, but they’re not willing to pay the $100,000 per parking space. And that’s part of the struggle. So, is there a way to work with a developer or builder to then future proof that and maybe in the short term make that parking available as public? So, the zoning would allow a commercial parking garage with a condo on top of it. And whether you have then

04:58:09
lease the parking space as a tenant or you own the parking space, that would be up to the builder and the developer to achieve. It’s just having that conversation with them and helping them to make their proform work. And very often if you decouple the parking from the condo and they can run a parking garage and this some of them are in that business in other communities, they would look at doing that.

04:58:30
Um but continuing that sort of pressure on the developers to think how they can make parking as a public asset as opposed to always being a private asset within the downtown rather than having to supply another parking garage. It may be better to have 10 spaces sketch in each building throughout the downtown than trying to consolidate 200 spaces in one structure.

04:58:50
So that’s the conversation we are currently having with some of the proponents as they’re reimagining their existing planning approvals or trying to think how to proceed with their development sites going forward in the next couple of years. So I hopefully I answered your question but what you were asking is the conversation that we are currently having.

04:59:05
It’s just how do we make it happen? It’s a good >> challenge for that. And so I was I was actually thinking a more broad question about a whole planning regime that that created that opportunity. But in addition to that, if the city was going to invest in a parking lot, above ground parking lot where we own the land and we own the the the the concrete posts that could hold up the cars and then homes on top.

04:59:28
Um, is that is that not something we could start thinking about now? because clearly we need the housing through the chair to the counselor. Yes, >> that’s just add the words in here. >> I’m with you. >> You going to do that? >> Councelor Nissan is next. >> Good timing. I would like to uh just propose an amendment to uh to the amendment.

04:59:57
Uh and uh as I do though, I did want to just check uh in terms of this feasibility study concept, could that uh also uh at least take a gander at commercial uses in the same building? Um is that also a a possibility? Obviously, we have it in our current garage. So, um, if there any concerns with us looking at that as well or hard to know who wants to answer questions right now, but but maybe Steve, Steve, do you think that’s >> through the chair to the counselor? Um, I can start from a zoning or a land use perspective that would be desirable in order to have a mixeduse building as opposed to a purpose-built just parking garage. Um I’m just in terms of any additional complexity that it would bring in terms of a costing or a design perspective. Uh but we could look at that. I was just looking at some you know high level costing information and just to report back as what would it look like to have a ground floor

05:00:57
commercial as opposed to ground flooror parking in terms of the design of that structure and try to include that information when we report back. So the short answer is yes, we can endeavor to provide alternatives whether that is ground floor commercial, ground floor residential or ground floor parking um from a in terms of developing alternative sort of proformas for that consideration. Thank you.

05:01:18

Okay, great. Um so uh I think it’s yeah I’ve sent something along and it’s important to me that it be included as an amendment to the amendment because for me to support the rest I would like to have this included uh also. So uh Oh yeah. Direct the CEO to >> Lee. Are you okay with the CEO being directed here? >> Okay. Yeah. At the beginning.

05:01:54

Yeah. For my amendment to the amendment, just add use after commercial. And I think uh uh is January 2027 possible because that will get us into the budget season or are we going to have to kick this? >> It’s almost a year. >> I think to get a feasibility study completed by January 2027 is pretty aggressive or or March >> and that’s exactly what you would like to see, right? aggressive timelines.

05:02:28
It’s up to you guys. It’s up to you. Tell us what you think you can do reasonably. And uh I mean it depends on whether you’re hiring out or how much in-house work needs to be done. I I acknowledge all that. So >> give them a Q uh Q1 or Q2. >> Yeah. I’m just just want to acknowledge that that may cause a delay to us getting this into budget 2027 of any kind.

05:02:50
So, but I’m okay with that personally. Uh Scott, what do you think? What do you What’s your recommendation >> through the vice chair? Why not give staff to Q2 of 2027? We’ll bring back something. Um I don’t think it’ll hold up the capital budget process because if anything, it’ll just have uh the first year is going to be design anyways or detailed design what comes out of the direction and we can budget that in the budget anyways because it’ll really be the construction cost will be the large component that’ll be in a future year budget. So it’ll be a multi-year budget set in 2027. You can have a rough idea of what it’ll be for the design that won’t change very much and then you can have the discussion with council and direction on the choice you from the feasibility study and that’ll further inform the capital budget construction cost the following year or follow-up years. >> So I just want to confirm that I won’t we won’t be needing to approve something in the budget without having the feasibility study done and end up handcuffing ourselves without the study.

05:03:49

Correct. You’ll be above you’ll be approving the study itself or funding for the study itself but not what is going to be the preferred option for that study. That’ll be a following direction from council at a future meeting. >> Okay. But my sorry vice chair my suggestion is that we start funding this now.

05:04:05
Maybe I should have mentioned that out of the reserve so you can start sooner and not wait for the capital. My understanding from previous conversations with our CEO was that we are going to look at a way to fund the feasibility study through the consultant budget. >> Okay. >> And so we’ll start that work now. >> But it won’t the the actual capital budget and current budget submission in the September or in the fall for 2027.

05:04:31
We’ll just have the seed money for that design based on what comes out of council. >> I get it now. Okay. Thanks. Thank you, vice chair, for the lenience there. >> Okay. Um, first time speaker Angelo Benta. >> Thank you, Chair. >> So, my question is, did we go from a parking agenda item to a housing item that will not be expedited, which is what the delegation came here for? Yes or no? uh through you chair.

05:05:16
Um I I I I do think council has and is deliberating with respect to a trade-off, right? I think in response to the delegation, I think what you heard was uh the need and the desire to move quickly on any initial steps to start to budget for uh important design um and um and capital planning um to deliver uh future parking.

05:05:46
um the more that we uh build in some of the other kind of important objectives that we have, the more that we’re we’re taking away from the speed factor. Um um but again um you know addressing other important community initiatives with respect to the way that the motion is currently worded. I I think it kind of uh addresses the middle ground where it does allow us to like Scott said move forward quickly ensure that something is in uh the the 2027 um budget capital forecast for parking is the priority.

05:06:26
but coming back in the first half of 27 with opportunities to augment that design to ensure that some of the other important community objectives are addressed. So, uh I do see the uh the current wording as as a compromise. >> Thank you for that. And I have no problem with the housing project. My only discussion is we talked about getting this project done by 2030 2032.

05:06:56
Now with the way the economy is, we’re not going to start for another two years at least and we’re talking 19, you know, 2035 onward. So we’re back to 2016 plus more years. So I mean that’s okay. I understand that. But I just want to facts or facts here. >> Okay, that was a comment. Um, councelor Karns is next.

05:07:30

Thanks. Uh, thanks for like doing this. But, uh, can you throw in the fire station because I also need that downtown. So, can put the fire station in here too, please, somebody. >> Sure. >> Yeah, throw the fire station in. Number nine. >> Public service uses >> and public service uses. any any serious questions coming forward.

05:07:55

No, that’s serious. For years, I’ve been asking what’s the vision for downtown, particularly lot 4, and how we optimize it. We decommissioned the transit station. We now have major construction at 409 Brandt. We have a ready, willing, enabled developer. We have a a an end of life office building with no attached parking.

05:08:14
Uh and we finally have the parking study. So, we have a huge uh location where the heart of our downtown is, and we have no vision for it, and we’re drawing a vision on the backs of a parking plan that was paid for by the businesses who are telling you they are ready to leave and not renew their leases.

05:08:32
So, can we please add in uh public service uses, particularly the fire station? >> Fire station. >> Fire station number nine is what I would like included in there. Is this a third amendment to the original amendment? >> I would like the specific when it’s time. I want the fire station number nine. Okay. Um, >> I don’t know. >> We’re on the second amendment.

05:09:31

Okay. We’re on we’re on uh we already have a an amendment to the amendment. >> You’re okay with that? So, councelor Karns, if Rory puts uh add public s add public uses uh such as >> a fire station, then that’s incorporated into his amendment and it’s not two amendments. >> Okay. Next is uh councelor Stolty.

05:10:06

Thank you. I I have heard everyone and I absolutely agree. We don’t want to lose sight. We don’t want to move too forward on something that’s not scoped big enough, but we also don’t want to lose sight of what this report and what the delegates came here today to try to appeal to us on, and that is that they need help getting customers in and out of downtown sooner rather than later.

05:10:23
Is there anything that we can add in to a request to expedite alternative methods of dealing other than the parking garage? Like, do you need any other resources? Is there any other directions that we can make like connecting with Burlington Transit? Something where we can expedite short-term solutions while we get this figured out >> um through the charity.

05:10:44
You councelor Sulty really it’s a approval of the recommendations of the staff report which are to implement our shortterm our short-term recommendations. That’s going to free up some capacity within the existing supply. So we are looking for approval of of the recommendations. >> Great. Thank you. >> Mary Dward is next.

05:11:05
Thank you. Uh just uh through you vice chair, a question of staff and I I really like the um the attempt to achieve a compromise here. My question is around uh we seem to be kind of riding two ponies here. So we’ll get some information for budget to do something. Uh we’re going to have a feasibility study on a parallel path that will inform whether we want to proceed with a standalone parking garage.

05:11:32
Um but we’re going to already have made a decision to do something with that in budget before we get this feasibility study. So I don’t want to muddy the ground here. I’m just trying to think of how we set the next council up for good decision making on this item. And um I I personally think that uh just a standalone parking garage is not a good use of urban space downtown.

05:11:59
I I really like the additional language at the end. >> Sorry, the the question was we’re riding two paths here. So, what are like how do when did they come together? How do we We’re going to get something in Q3 at budget, but then we’re going to have some stuff coming later that would would in theory really inform that, but we’ve already charged ahead because the dates are different. There’s two paths here.

05:12:33
I’m just trying to figure out how we bring it together. >> Uh through the vice chair to the mayor, I think it it’s it’s really a placeholder. So the the 2027 budget will be a placeholder for design in 2027 for whatever option comes out of the feasibility study. The construction cost piece will be 28 29 a future design a future capital construction year uh similar to a road project where we go we’re going to do this resourcing and all of a sudden something we have a bad winter and it comes to a full reconstruction we change it after that design year or the seed money year. So I think staff can do the same thing here where we can see design money now so it’s there to so it doesn’t prolong this too long and then we can do the feasibility study bring that back to council with the options and recommendations from staff and that’ll allow us to inform or firm up that capital construction cost for that future year when it actually comes time to build whatever we land on for that

05:13:32
the structure. >> Okay, that’s great. Can I make a comment now chair? Okay u vice chair. Thank you so much. So, I I think this is great to this is really just a request to get some information on some options and I I really do appreciate the additional language. Uh thank you to the mover of that to explore um really mixed use, not just a standalone parking garage.

05:13:55
And uh but at the same time, we’re we’re moving the the ball down the field. So, I hope our delegates feel comfortable that they have been heard. We understand especially in the east part it’s it’s already at 90% capacity and there’s a lot of businesses uh over there and more to come and a lot of residential units and more to come.

05:14:18
So uh definitely need to um take that into consideration. So thank you. >> Councelor Karns is next. >> Uh thanks. So I just wanted to get some better clarity that I can communicate this back to the business community. So, uh, again, going back, you know, for years I’ve been saying, can we get the vision for this downtown put together or some guidance? I was pushed off to say, no, that’s all part of the Burlington Lands Partnership work.

05:14:44
That’s why I supported the the consultancy budget at the budget time for this work. So, now we’re here and I was told you can’t have anything really discussed around lot 4 because we’re waiting on the parking study. So now I have the parking study and now I have to go back to the other studies hearing that I’m now going to get a feasibility study.

05:15:04
So when we saw the slide in the delegates presentation that is uh from our budget that just passed and it has the future years and I thought I saw 2032 uh can you give us a realistic timeline with everything that you have? If I needed to finish the sentence to the business community, you’ll probably have a parking garage or enhanced high volume parking asset.

05:15:28
It will be coming to downtown in the year through the vice chair to the counselor. That’d be hard for staff to say without knowing what the preferred option is from the feasibility study. Like there’s so many variety of options now on the table. We can go and review them all, but there is a dramatic change of how long it takes to build these things, get these things approved, depending on what comes out of the feasibility study approval.

05:16:07
Councelor Stoalty, >> I’m going to help my colleague councelor Karns to perhaps feel a tiny bit better, but so many of our conversations revolve around trying to access upper level government funding. If we were to have an feasibility study that perhaps supports some sort of affordable attainable housing and we have land available, those are the two criteria that we would need need to make an application to build Canada homes and that may expedite a build getting done.

05:16:34
Interesting. >> Okay. Um, are we ready to uh call a vote on this? >> Is it two parts? >> The amendment to the amendment first. >> The amendment to the amendment first. >> Lisa, you have a question or comment? >> Yeah. I just wanted to understand um do we need to tie this back to anything or or break it out to the Burlington Land Partnership? So, I don’t want to go down these two ponies and not have the two tied together because, you know, when we’re talking about housing uh and how we’re going to fund it, well, we’re about to spend 7 million on funding housing today. So, how long down the road do we have to keep waiting for this if it’s not tied to the Burlington Lands Partnership piece, which is the supposed to be the enabling tool for um unlocking some housing on on our city land, which is likely what

05:17:33
we’re talking about here. Do they need to be tied? Yeah. through you uh chair. Um the way I read this motion, I think staff are satisfied that um that we can advance this work in the manner that it’s um it’s described and will come back to council um with the emphasis on the potential for expediting this work.

05:18:03
Um that’s that’s the takeaway um that staff are are um focused on um as a result. Councelor Charman. >> Yeah, I really I’m just looking at this and it says chief still says direct the chief financial officer. If it were to change say direct CEO, you would actually have the answer to your question about who’s going to be involved.

05:18:29

Everybody. >> So I don’t know if that was intended to be made to CEO. >> You want to amend that? Yeah. if you wouldn’t mind changing that and solves the problem. Right. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Okay. So, we’re going to vote on the amendment to the amendment. So, everything in dark uh bold right now. the undertake a feasibility study to support housing, commercial, and public service uses such as a fire station on the same site by Q2 2027.

05:19:06
All those in favor? Any opposed? That carries? And then the motion as amended. Uh the whole thing right there. I won’t read it. >> Uh you want to change the financial officer to CAO. Okay. Motion as amended. All those in favor? Any opposed? And that carries. >> The motion as amended. >> Now the main the main motion as amended.

05:19:54
All those in favor? Any opposed? And that carries back over to you, chair. >> Thanks so much. Thank you, Kaylin, for joining us and to our consultants as well. Now move on to item 8.3, which is the city of Burlington Community Strategic Plan Horizon 2050, TRN0326. I’ll now invite Andy Scott, chief transformation officer, who’ll provide some comments and introduce staff and the consultants who will provide a presentation.

05:20:33

Thank you. And uh through the chair. Um while we set up, I would quickly like to say that’s a pleasure to table staff report TRN0320 26 which makes available the new 25-year community strategic plan for consideration by committee and council. >> Okay, Andy, I’m just apologizing. Sorry, we got caught up.

05:20:51
So, uh, clerk’s advising us we should probably take a 5m minute break just to quickly uh settle everyone, let the room, uh, resettle itself. So, my apologies. Um, so, so to the clerk, we can just set 5 minutes for a break and, uh, then we’ll get get you going again on your item. Welcome back to item 8.3 again. Uh this

05:28:39
is the city of Burlington Community Strategic Plan Horizon 2050 TRN0326. And I would now like to invite Andy Scott, chief transformation officer, who will provide some comments and introduce the staff and consultants who will provide a presentation. >> Thank you. And through the chair, um, I would quickly like to say it’s a pleasure to table staff report TRN 0326, which makes available a new 25-year community strategic plan for consideration by committee.

05:29:06
Um, work on this plan began around a year ago. It was initiated in April 2025 via a council direction, TRN0125. This has seen significant engagement undertaken with a proposed strategy informed by residents, business owners, city staff and council. I would like to thank all those who participated as well as the strategic project team which included members of the transformation office, members of the communication engagement team and team members from our consulting team deote.

05:29:32
Uh today you will hear from Stephanie Venmore, manager of corporate strategy and business improvement about the content of the proposed strategy. But first, I’d like to hand over to Andy Potter from Deote who will give you a brief overview of the methodology that was followed. Thank you. >> Thank you, Andy.

05:29:48
And uh good afternoon to everybody on council. Um if I could ask for the next slide to be advanced. I’m just going to make a few summary comments before handing it over to Stephanie who will get into the detail. Uh, as you’ve heard a number of times, I think through just what Andy said and through some of the delegations this morning, this was a very extensive process, data informed, um, resident informed, staff informed, council informed.

05:30:16
Um, you’ll remember we started the process back in June when I introduced the concept of strategic planning to you. We had a session in here back in the fall. A lot of work was done and I want to make sure that everybody appreciates this was a very extensive process. Next slide please. I think it is also incumbent for council to appreciate that horizon 2050 is not a fundamental reset from 2040.

05:30:47
It’s an evolution. There’s a lot of words on this slide, but the two pieces that I would really want to draw your attention to is that first and foremost, this is people first. And secondly, and I think this is important, quality of life is identified as a critical measure of success. And those would be some of the fundamental differences that I would want to call out.

05:31:10
And just quickly on the next slide, this is the strategy on a page or sometimes we refer to it as a strategy house. I won’t get into the detail because Stephanie will. The vision at the top level fundamentally what is the destination? What are we trying to accomplish? The mission. What is our reason for existence? Why do we do what we do? The strategic directions which we’ll drill down on.

05:31:35
What are we trying to accomplish over the next 25 years? Further subdelineated by objectives and measurable outcomes ultimately. And then finally, and this is the underpinninging, think of this as the foundation. What are the guiding principles that need to inform council decisions over the coming business planning cycles over the next 25 years to reach said destination? With that, I’ll pass it over to Stephanie.

05:32:07

Thank you, Andy. And uh good morning, council. Good morning. We’re in the afternoon. Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. Uh, with that context from Andy, I’d now like to go through and outline the recommended vision and how it translates into a practical strategy to guide Burlington over these next 25 years.

05:32:31
This vision is designed to be aspirational and define our long-term destination. Our vision is Next slide, please. Burlington is a community where nature is protected, growth is purposeful, and everyone thrives. What is intentional here is balance. Protection of our legacy sits alongside growth.

05:32:59
Thriving means economic opportunity, belonging, and quality of life. Growth should be deliberate. support community well-being and the exp the experiences available to our residents and to our visitors. The community’s vision provides council with that long-term decision lens. When faced with short and medium-term tradeoffs, the vision will be an important consideration.

05:33:31
Next slide, please. The vision defines where we are going and our direction of travel. The mission defines how we as a community and a city will collectively get there. Our mission is Burlington stands together, staying connected, caring for one another, and strengthening community well-being for generations to come.

05:33:56
This reflects what we heard through our engagement. Our Burlington community values connection. They value civic culture rooted in care and shared responsibility. Horizon 2050 will not be delivered by the city alone. It requires a collected effort by council staff partners and the broader community all have a role to play. Next slide please.

05:34:31
If the mission reflects a unified a unification of how we achieve the community’s vision, these guiding principles establish the key considerations which are fundamental as we and our partners approach our operational and strategic activities. There are five guiding principles that should shape every major effort.

05:34:52
We are committed to being financially responsible and living within our means. We are committed to being sustainable and future ready, advancing climate action and resilience. We are committed to fostering respect and belonging so that equity is embedded in all that we do. We support economic vitality because a strong local economy underpins community well-being.

05:35:21
and we operate in a way that is innovative, transparent, and datadriven to maintain public trust. If initiatives and practices don’t do not align with these principles, then they don’t advance Horizon 2050. Next slide, please. With those guard rails in place, this strategy organizes now into areas of focus.

05:35:48
Horizon 2050 is structured around four strategic directions grounded in data, situational analysis, and what we heard from the community, council, staff, and our partners. First, quality services for all communities. Delivering exceptional, efficient, and customerfocused services now and into the future. Second, neighborhoods that support well-being.

05:36:16
creating safe, inclusive, and healthy places for people to live. Third, preserve the environment and promote the natural legacy, protecting and increasing access to our lakefront, escarment, green spaces, and ecological systems for future generations. Fourth, enabled and purposeful growth, aligning housing, mobility, and economic development with the evolving needs and quality of life for our community.

05:36:43
This structure is intentionally balanced and sequenced. Long-term success requires progress in all four, not advancement in one at the expense of another. Next slide, please. To ensure accountability, each direction translates into clear, measurable commitments. These objectives are where the strategy bridges into action.

05:37:09
They include object objectives such as meeting or exceeding st service standards, enhancing our customers experience, strengthening that civic engagement and fostering inclusive and welcoming neighborhoods. It’s reinforcing our net zero commitments, preserving our environment and protecting biodiversity, facilitating purposeful residential, economic and community development, and advancing an integrated mobility network.

05:37:40
These objectives will directly inform business planning, budget decisions, and performance reporting throughout this organization through our five-year corporate work plans. This is how Horizon 2050 moves from aspirational to execution. Next slide, please. Achieving these objectives will require a shared and coordinated effort.

05:38:04
Horizon 2050 is not a corporate plan. This is a shared responsibility for Burlington’s future. Community partners, council, staff will each play different roles at different times. Sometimes leading, sometimes partnering, facilitating, or advocating. This strategy allows council to be intentional into the future and evaluate the role of the city relative to other partners and the community at large.

05:38:35
Shared responsibilities strengthen our ability to achieve outcomes. This collaborative approach reflects both what we heard in engagement and what is required to deliver over a 25-y year horizon. Next slide, please. So, the next steps are clear. Staff will finalize and design and develop a cohesive product that will move into communication promotion and promotion of the strategy across the broader community.

05:39:04
The strategy will be in will be integrated into business planning, budget alignment, and performance reporting. Horizon 2050 sets the long-term framework. Implementation follows your endorsement today. >> All set? >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Okie dokie. >> Thank you. Um, we’re going to go over to questions now. Just looking to the board for any committee members that have a question.

05:39:38
Councelor Charman. >> Well, thank you for this. It’s come a long way. Well done. Um, the words I’ve been looking for is or the words I’m looking for are embrace innovation. And I’m looking for those. Did I miss them somewhere? >> You didn’t miss You missed in You didn’t miss innovation. It’s in there.

05:40:00
Embrace innovation. it it’s the direction and yeah it could be added in yes but innovation is definitely it’s one of the guiding principles >> yeah thank you and I just just if I might the notion of a strategic plan in an environment where we are very controlled by laws and bylaws innovation is something that sometimes eludes us so the very notion of making it active strikes me as being really critical thank Thank you.

05:40:33

Okay, looking for any other questions. Okay, I’m going to ask one. So, I was pleased to see a lot of this uh focuses definitely in on the quality of life. Uh and in order to deliver that quality of life, I think we have to focus on the services that that we offer. And one of the words that was used to describe that was efficient.

05:40:53
And I’m just wondering, uh efficiency is great. Um, but I’m wondering if you had explored the terminology valuedriven because efficiency sounds like fast. Uh, so talk to us about how you determine that word. Yes. And through you chair. Back to you, councelor Karns. Um, efficient is only one element of the way that we’ve described services throughout the entire uh document.

05:41:20
So if you also take a look at um even the titling the quality of service and that is actually the direction is to provide the quality services. Efficiency is only one of the attributes that we’re looking for in terms of delivering those services. >> Thank you very much. Any other questions? >> Okay, councelor Charman. >> Thank you very much.

05:41:47
We do have comments from uh the sustainable development committee and BAC and uh and from Burlington Green and I’m just wondering are we able to take advantage of their additional um their wording changes please >> and through you chair to councelor Charman um abs absolutely there’s opportunity to shift language um however I’d like to give the perspective that um when we planned the vision specifically it was under a lens that um the language met all community members.

05:42:22
So, um when you dig into the document, you can definitely see where the focus around protecting nature dives in very clearly to our climate action, to protecting the environment beyond just nature. um to the general public. Um nature is the language that we we chose so that it was understood by all.

05:42:49
Um and we did do um an extent extensive uh outreach to multiple uh community members and nature was the word that landed and resonated with resonated with most community members. >> Okay. So but you will be looking at them. >> We can. >> Thank you. Okay. All right. Uh, I’m looking for someone to move the report. Councelor Galbre. Thank you very much.

05:43:20
Anyone to comment on the report? Mayor Meboard. Thank you uh through you, Chair. This is a really great piece of work. I just want to thank you uh and thank you for all of the community engagement that you did across many different platforms, groups, committees, in person, online uh really important.

05:43:42
I think it has made for a really robust document and the strategic directions are they really resonate with me and I think with the uh with the community uh based on the feedback that we’ve gotten. So the quality services uh neighborhoods that support well-being. We want to make sure that that everyone feels welcomed and included of course preserving our environment uh promoting natural legacy.

05:44:08
We are between a wonderful great lake and a world biosphere reserve and Niagara escarment. And uh I like the word purposeful growth. Uh it’s not willy-nilly. It is not uh foisted on us. We try to plan it in a purpose purposeful way as much as we can. uh when we have the OOLT hanging over our head uh and and communities fostering respect and well and belonging I think that’s a really really important conversation and piece of the puzzle.

05:44:36
So lots of other things I could say but um it it’s really well done. The economic piece is in there as well which it should be and I want I thank the uh Burlington Economic Development and Tourism for their input. this really kind of dovetales nicely with the work that they’re uh doing on the destination marketing work um piece.

05:44:55
So, thank you for this and uh we have our work cut out for us. So, >> councelor Bentovenia, please. >> Thank you, chair, and uh thank you for the uh presentation. Uh I want to echo what the mayor has said and I like the word evolution from 2040 to 2050. Um I’ve attended uh four uh of these sessions with advisory committees or uh focus group and I agree.

05:45:23
Um they were wellreceived and I just want to say you talk about purposeful growth. Here’s what someone said to me and they’re not from originally from this country. They said this is like when you’re born and then they say then you live the experience. That’s what this is all about.

05:45:43
And then you get old and you you live uh you live in place. Aging in place. No, you’re that’s because No, no, that’s because you that’s your saying aging in place. >> So all three fit exactly what we’re doing >> and we are aging. Well, you speak to yourself. >> So thank you for that. That’s it. Okay. Councelor Dalty, >> thank you.

05:46:19
I just want Sorry, I just want a quick thank you as well. And I just want to commend you for Burlington’s getting much better about doing engagement, both public engagement and engagement with council and other staff members. I recall my meeting with yourselves as particularly wholesome. It wasn’t just what do you think? We went through it word by word by word talking about the meaning of words and what words represent including the word nature and so on.

05:46:46
So I just want to thank you. It was a very very wholesome exercise. >> Councelor Sherman. >> Thank you very much. when we started this discussion in 2014 2013 um we did a deep dive on data and you did something very like that although I think we we had a different way of dealing with it but it’s fine you you went through that with us and so that was important um I think I think then we sort of moved to the 2022 view where all of a sudden we’re looking at another 120,000 people moving here and we had all this sticker shock with that And now maybe maybe changing markets and reality is is coming back to thinking about quality of life and and and being a little more aspirational in terms of um you know the the the human aspect of this. So I I deeply appreciate the thinking about that. Um, of course

05:47:42
you can never quite deal with my next question, which is about, okay, so how do we get from 25 years out to 5 years out without having wiggling lines that are integrated and and maybe be thinking about, you know, gates of for all of these things and you know that are uh deal with okay in this this five years we’re going to do this and then the next one five and so on and then what we will do year by year which will be really helpful and of course then looking at processes and activities and jobs and and and and KPI into that. Um what is the next step? So well done so far. What is the next step through you chair to the counselor? Um the next step is to really create the product. So what you’re seeing is a presentation. you’re seeing a PowerPoint

05:48:40
presentation, the next step is to very much build out the product. Also bu build out um some content that is very meaningful to the organization so that we can start to see how the increments of five-year corporate plans can lead into um accomplishing this long-term vision.

05:49:00
Um so with the help and um I very much I say this every time we go through an iteration of our um strategies um our corporate communications and our engagement team is tied at the hip with us and um we couldn’t have established where we are today without that team. Um and so they will continue on this journey with us with uh creating the product, designing the product um and then also having information available on our web um through social media.

05:49:32
We will have a a wholesome package and product developed um that we will bring back to to council um with um that that complete package. Um that’s what is the next steps after this. You will also see in that package um reference to how do we measure success as well as um where have we been and what have we been successful in.

05:49:54
So there will be an entire package um provided and created and presented back >> and when might we see that >> um that uh we’re looking towards uh June of this of this year. June. Yes. >> Wow. >> Well that is wonderful. Thank you very much. I appreciate all the work that’s done and uh and uh good job.

05:50:14
Thank you, >> Councelor Gary. >> Thank you, Chair. And uh yeah, I just want to echo my thanks for all the work that uh has gone into this document. I remember coming in in 2018 and given the 2040 document saying these this is kind of how the city operates. It was a real uh eye openener. So, I’m very happy to be a part of the creation of this one.

05:50:39
Um I yeah, I like it. I I think it reads really well and uh thanks for all the work you’ve done on it. >> Thanks. I’ll take my last comments and just thank you for the good work. Um that has no doubt come from a lot of good listening and uh taking feedback in and it’s really set us up to evolve and mature from something as simple from 2015 to 2040 which was grow, move, healthy, green and engaging.

05:51:03
we were very uh simple and direct and this one is much more aspirational and connected to community and and rooted in the land that we’re on. So I really do like this one uh quite a lot and I look for that more refined. I think there’s some feedback that can still come. So I look for the refined one and then I would like us to get to a point where um you know our mission statements and our visions are you know boldly on that wall behind you so that everyone can live them. uh each day so that we know why we’re here and what we’re committed to. So, thank you very much for that. And Council Sherman, uh did you want to make a comment because your last one was a question before I close this item up. >> Well, I kind of added comments afterwards. So, I’m I’m good and uh actually very pleased with what I’ve seen. So, we made progress much more than we had after 2014 because we are caught up in all sorts of other things. So, this is great. I’m looking forward to how this rolls out.

05:52:01

Okay. Thank you very much. Um, so I’ve had this moved I believe Kelvin and uh all those in favor please. Any opposed? And that carries. Okay. So we’re now going to move on to the remaining items in the community and corporate services section. And the first one that we are going to take is the pulled item which is 7.

05:52:23
2 two, renumeration and expenses paid to council and appointees for 2025 FIN326. And this item was in fact pulled by councelor Nissan. And so I’d like to invite you uh if you’d like to speak to this first, move it and speak to it or ask questions. >> Uh yeah, thank you very much. Uh so the question for staff was um and I do have a I will have an amendment um but don’t worry it won’t take long uh one way or the other.

05:52:56
The um the additional 2025 adjustments I was hoping that staff could explain um sort of explain where where that’s coming from on there. Thank you. through the chair to the counselor. So that’s in relation to appendix A. So the um in 2025 there was a cash payout in lie of benefits the counselors that received that reached the maximum age for participation in which was capped at 71 and then Sunlife at uh 65.

05:53:37
So, if you’ll recall, that was a council decision and it was retro to the beginning of council in uh December 2022. >> So, I just wanted to confirm why one is higher than like some are higher than the others. Could you just explain that to me? >> Sorry. The uh >> So, the ones at 24 and one’s at eight and it’s only some counselors who are getting it, >> right? So it it depends on the age of the counselors, right? So and which program.

05:54:10
So is capped at 71. So the calculation worked out back to 2022 uh related those two benefits as well as sunlife and and those are the main reasons why. >> Okay. Thank you. Um so yeah, if I could just bring up that motion. Yeah, thank you very much. And uh well, I guess I’ll just wait for it to come up. I sent that around.

05:54:45
Uh so the here’s the thing. Um with the change that we made, I don’t feel that this report provides a full picture of our compensation anymore. Um the obviously this has disclosure requirements from the province. I just feel that we’re not that we could be more transparent with what we’re uh doing.

05:55:06
So let me just read it for you guys. Uh direct the CFO to provide a supplemental memo containing a revised appendix to finance report FIN326 to add following sources of income and deductions to arrive at grand total gross and net compensation for salary benefits. OMRs, which would be voluntarily provided by counselors and deductions.

05:55:29
Um, staff I’ve run it by staff. There’s run by legal staff and finance staff, and the the date is uh okay with uh with them. You might want to put the timer on for me, but I won’t be much longer anyway. Yeah, I’m I’m introducing the motion. U but it won’t be won’t I’m almost done. Um, so I do think that although we have disclosure requirements, we should also meet resident expectations for where their dollars are going that could be fixed with this amendment.

05:55:57
The goal of council, the stated goal of council, although I didn’t support it or councelor Stoalty was to address what was characterized as an inequity. So let’s give them all the numbers and then we they can decide if there’s an inequity or fix, you know, whether we fix it or not, you know. And I do want to add that unfortunately there was an article in the Burlington today um that because these these numbers are confusing um and I don’t think it gave the full picture.

05:56:26
There was a a head a headline that said Burlington’s six ward counselors each earned approximately $160,000 between the region and city. But we we know our salary is 129K. So it’s between salaries and benefits. So that gets confusing as well. Uh so that would be my um my motion and I think if we could do that supplemental report then at least we you know I mean council obviously stands by what it did previously.

05:56:54
So this is the I think an extension of that. Thank you. >> Okay. So now we’re going to go on to uh questions around the amendment of which I see the order being councelor Benia, councelor Charman, councelor goreth, councelor stoli. So, councelor Bentania, you are first. >> My question is to staff. >> Is that okay? >> So, I just want to clarify to again correct all misinformation.

05:57:29
I did read somewhere, I’m not sure where I read it, that this um chart um mentions that taxpayers are paying more money. Can you tell us if the budget for council has changed based on this budget for this past year? That’s my first question. So, uh through the chair to the the counselor, the the budget uh would have reflected the actuals that that we have recorded in here.

05:58:08
reflects what was approved. >> So, did the taxpayer pay any more money tax-wise based on this chart? >> Through the chair, so it paid what was budgeted. >> So, there was no extra money put into the budget that the taxpayer was responsible for is my follow-up question. So through the chair, so you’re asking me relative to the previous year’s budget, did it increase at all or because it it >> No, it was it was anticipated and was the the what was reported was because of these numbers, two counselors making more money that the budget was greater than it was originally, but it was because of benefits and that the taxpayer

05:59:08
has paid extra money based on that. Is that correct or not? >> So it it was funded through the existing approved budget. >> So question >> thank you >> questions to the amendment please. Councelor Charman please. >> Thank you very much. Um so I’m believe that when it was decided that these amendments should be made that there was a report and it was done fully. um in public.

05:59:35
Um and so so staff, what does anything like this add and why is it necessary through the chair? So um this is a report that the municipal act requires us to provide and the table satisfies that requirement. Um,

06:00:00
the motion to the counselor’s asking for more information. I would have to direct it to to the to the mo to the motion. He’s the only real information we can provide would be to show a net number. Um so whether that’s council finds that’s useful that’s that that’s up to council.

06:00:17
But I will emphasize that the table does meet the requirements under the municipal act. >> And and if I might build on that, it does explain fully what the amendments were >> on the table in the words above >> through the chair. Yeah, there is a description as to what’s in the table. >> All right. So if I just quick follow up then of the mover.

06:00:37
So what would you be your purpose be for this to put it in a newspaper? Yeah, I think uh listen, I think the the truth of this is that there was a claim of an inequity that was resolved by giving two senior council members extra money. And I don’t think that was an inequity. And if we show the net figures, I guess we’ll find out.

06:00:58
But if you don’t want to see the net figures, don’t vote for it. >> Okay. Councelor Gre, please. >> Uh yes. Thank you. Um yeah, I you know I I agree that the final figure of 160 is a little bit misleading. Um if that if if that’s what the counselor wants to be um detailed a little bit more, I’m I’m supportive.

06:01:26
Um because I believe that figure includes CPP EI matching uh deductions by the city to include a total figure. Am I correct in that thinking? uh CFO >> uh through the chair. That’s correct. It includes uh those benefits that you don’t receive directly that they’re paid to other uh other providers. >> Okay. Thank you.

06:01:50
Yeah, I I I would like to see that uh just more detailed for uh the public to see. Thank you, >> Councelor Stoline. >> Yeah, for my comments actually very similar to councelor Galbrace. I think that more clarity and transparency is never a bad thing. So, I’m certainly in support of this. Okay, I’ll uh I’ll make a comment.

06:02:09
Um yeah, I would I want everybody to see every single penny that I get from the city. So, however that is facilitated, uh I would support anything like that. So, I think that sounds like support. Are you responding to me or just speaking? Okay. So, we have a general comment from uh the commissioner. >> Uh thank you, chair.

06:02:35
I just want to highlight uh you’ll note in the proposed amendment that with respect to that’s uh bracket voluntarily provided by counselors and uh I feel like I should bring this to everyone’s attention and that is that the municipal act does not require the city to uh disclose or provide any information on OMR’s contributions and so if uh the direction is to provide the supplemental memo uh everyone’s individual’s contributions are personal information to them so you’re going to disclose it and willing to do so then to the CFO then that could be provided but otherwise that’s nothing not something that the city can compel or produce um uh in a public chart with respect to now with respect to salary and benefits that is what the city uh pursuant to the municipal act is required to report on and we have that information as the CFOs indicated that uh the municipal requirement is met uh

06:03:35
There’s certainly to councelor Galbra’s point an ability to further break down some additional information, but I I did want to highlight the OMR’s piece in particular. Um, and that’s why that the language there is voluntarily provided by counselors because that would be something that individually uh you would need to decide whether or not you’re going to disclose that in order for the CFO to produce that publicly.

06:03:59

Okay. Thank you, Commissioner. Uh, first time question or comment from Mayor Meard. Thank you chair. I did have a question. So uh the just looking at the chart on page 22 uh so we see the salary and the benefits is already reported. The the owners is that is that included in the benefits already or is that a whole other number that wouldn’t be recorded here at all? >> So through the uh through the chair to the mayor.

06:04:30
So, those of you that are in the OMR’s plan, there’s a contribution that is made um that is included in the benefit section of it. >> It’s already in there, >> right? So, if anyone’s receiving, right? The M motion is asking that you include voluntarily provided by counselors the receive. The city doesn’t have that information.

06:04:54
We have no right to provide like we’re not given that information. and we’re legally not allowed. We’re legally not required to report on it. That would have to be a voluntary disclosure. So that’s the nuance of information that is not currently here. What we can provide in this motion is to show uh taxes withheld to what the net number you received from the city.

06:05:16
And then the motion is asking uh councilors to submit to the city did you re what did you receive from asking us to include that in the report. >> Okay. But so that would only apply for councelor Sherman and Bentania. It’s already included in the benefits for the rest of us. >> Correct. >> Okay. And then Okay. Uh so my second question is um what is meant by deduct like how you understand what deductions means? Is that is that also somewhere included in here already that could be broken out or what is that? >> That’s the only difference we can do. So right now this is reported on gross. So you all pay prop you pay uh income taxes that we withhold. So we would just add a line showing what the um what we withheld on for taxes and then we’d show what you net received would be the only difference that we have information on. >> Sorry just to follow up. So the

06:06:16
deduction is what you’re withholding for taxes only. >> Okay. >> Correct. So that’s that would be your net what you receive. what you actually get in your paycheck is the net amount. >> Okay. >> So, we we’re what again I reemphasize what we how we’ve reported this is consistent and uh is in compliance with the municipal act.

06:06:39

Okay. I’ll get back in line. Thanks. I next have Paul Sherman. >> Thank you very much. So, so now I’m thinking about this as net is saying, okay, so I think that some councilors are going to be asked to then say how much benefits they get after because they’re retired and then how much income tax we pay.

06:06:57
And so I I appreciate that this is, you know, suggesting that some people’s net income is greater than others, but it doesn’t take into consideration that some people are much younger and by the time they got 40 years of service, they will be getting all that money back at the rate of 40 years of service, 80% of their current income for the rest of their lives.

06:07:23
Whereas some of us who have been working for 10, 15 years, 10 years, then it’s only going to be 20%. Then some of us have businesses that also includes income that they earn and so that perhaps should also be put into the net income that one earns based on this particular discussion here and I doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

06:07:42
So then what about child deductions? If you have babies and you’re getting child well uh funding, this is this is very confusing. Could you please qualify what you’re asking for, counselor? >> Yes. And friends, please tell me if you’re going to comment or question because we’re new to the timer and I have two charts to click off.

06:08:12

Yeah, I think that question speaks for itself. And the uh and the motion actually speaks to what we’re included which is only your sources related to your duties as a counselor to be absolutely clear what you do on your own time whether it’s owning a business or consulting. We’re not going to cover that now unless you want to councelor Sherman.

06:08:32
Thank you. >> So so follow up if I may. So when it says voluntarily provided by counselors, what are you referring to there? >> Yeah, thank you chair. So we got four different sources of income now if you’re collecting. You have your $129,000 salary. You have your own pension which is 2% per every year of service.

06:09:03
um you no longer have to have a deduction out of it to pay into the OMRs and then now there’s extra compensation. So that’s what the the counselors are now getting. Two counselors are now getting the pension and the money that used to be paid into the pension system so that they could have a pension.

06:09:20
So those are the uh elements that I would include. I I would like to acknowledge and appreciate the absolute clarity counselor those who are collecting if they provide it will be on a voluntary basis we cannot direct you to provide that that is that is fine but I’m asking for all public sources of income so that people know that there is a salary there’s homers there’s benefits and then there’s also this net this decision for additional compensation and that’s just a matter of transparency >> further question please >> okay I’m going to um put you back in line because this is becoming a debate just between the two of you and I need to >> I’m asking for clarification. I’m asking for simp you had lots and lots of questions yesterday. I’d like to have with respect to clearly stated there’s four different four different areas and so you can go back in line if you have a question about those four areas because I do have three more people ahead of you. So next one is councelor Stoalty.

06:10:18

Thank you. Mine is a comment. Yep. Um, I’m just saying that I again totally agree with this amendment. When you look at those charts, and I’m glad that the mayor brought up that question about benefits, the numbers are confusing and if they’re confusing to us when we went through many, many hours of debate on this, then I can only imagine how confusing they are to the community and the taxpayer who actually pays our salary.

06:10:40
So, I do want more clarity and I would assume perhaps incorrectly, but I would assume that those on council who advocated so strongly for this based on clarity and transparency would be open to clarity and transparency. >> Thank you for your first time comment. I now have councelor uh scratched out councelor Nissan.

06:11:03
Is it a question or a comment? >> That was just to res to respond. So, I’m good for now. Okay. And now I have Mayor me Ward. Go ahead. Question or comment. >> This is a question. Chair. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, so I I misunderstood the OMR’s piece. I thought what was being asked for is what is paid to the counselor which is the decision that that we made not uh what the what anybody might get from when they choose to start collecting which is which is actually paid for by the pension fund and is not paid for by um by our taxpayers at that point. So uh and we didn’t make any vote about OMR’s pensions uh relative to you know what they should get. So um is the OMRs that

06:12:00
is paid for by the city those numbers that are already recorded in the 2025 adjustments. Is that what the owners is? And I heard you say that that’s not the annual number. That’s that goes back it was an adjustment made back several years. So it’s kind of a lump sum there. Is that correct? >> So through the mayor.

06:12:19
So those adjustments were compensation paid to the counselors because they’re no longer contributing to the homes. That’s the part that was >> okay. As was approved by council. >> Okay. So um that’s how I understand it. I think I think we already have all three of those um there. And I I don’t understand really the I don’t have a problem with the deductions piece. I don’t understand it.

06:12:50
So I guess my question is back to the mover. Are you asking for somebody to disclose to you whether they are drawing and what that amount is or are you simply asking for what is the city taxpayer funded part of the salary that is related to? So one is is funded by our city taxpayers, the other is not >> either to CFO or to mover.

06:13:23

Yeah. I think because taxpayers make that contribution and taxpayers are now providing that directly to the counselors who are collecting at the same time that in fact uh taxpayers do actually make a significant contribution towards and it is part of our public benefits for being in these uh roles that we get.

06:13:42
So um I think we should hold ourselves to the highest levels of transparency and and just uh let it out. Um, you know, maybe it would help. I could put up that chart from the region now of Joanna, if you want. >> Yeah, if Richard could pull that up then. This is what I would like us to something like this to get at the city.

06:14:04
We all receive this by email and I think it would just help clarify things, but it doesn’t have the s in it. So, u, but might help the mayor trying to figure out where the pass through comes from. So, um I’ll ask that this just be put on the record for council. And it shows um what uh a counselor until age 70 receives.

06:14:26
A counselor over age 71 at the region would receive. And C is what would have happened at the region if the mayor and counselor Charman’s motion had been approved. It was withdrawn. So, that’s completely moot at this point. But it just shows the the differential that we don’t see in this in the city report.

06:14:46
We don’t see a $20,000 difference as shown here. So this is for display purposes or to give you an idea of the kind of information I’m looking for. And I want to be clear this is not from the city. This is from the region. But I hope that helps because it does show the pay in lie of benefits that we here at the city approved uh as a group.

06:15:07
Uh so and again that’s a done deal. um this came after that and I think this provided a much clearer um picture to regional council members and I would like the city to have such a clear picture as well and the owners again that’s just voluntary so uh listen if you don’t want to do it you don’t have to do it but I I thought it would be best to have complete uh transparency about that as well I mean I would I I’ll be happy to release mine when the time comes for uh if it ever gets to that point.

06:15:41
Thank you. >> Okay. Um I have a question. Um very specific question. Uh I don’t know how to get into my own. So is it like already contained in my stuff that was already disclosed or do I have to do anything actually if this amendment passes? through the uh the chair. So based on your age, you don’t nothing changes um except um the motion is asking that we show the deductions.

06:16:23
So we would show I guess the bottom half of that chart from the region. So you don’t have to do anything. We would just show you net amount on there. >> Okay, that’s good. Um, councelor Bentovenia, I have you. I I’m I’m going to go with you and then councelor Greath and then councelor Charmin. >> Thank you. My last two questions.

06:16:47
Um so we all belong to certain boards whether it be internally through the city through the region through conservation or other organizations is the municipality should they be reporting what numeration they get and which includes potentially the trips that are taken as a taxable benefit. >> First question. Yeah.

06:17:31

So through through >> So sorry I just have to say counselor agree with your question. Do you do you are you applying that to the amendment? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Additional sources of income. >> Okay. Perfect. Uh over to you >> through the chair. So just to be clear, this is under the municipal act.

06:17:48
They tell us, province tells us what we have to report on. Those local municipal boards, they are required to tell us if you receive compensation and they are we are required to port to report on those. My second question has to be maybe with legal. Um would staff be required to disclose if we decided to make those taxable benefits.

06:18:20
the funds received from boards that we serve on or boards outside of should they be getting a T4 slip? I don’t know >> through the chair uh to the councelor section 284 of the municipal act is which deals with this and it requires that uh the my mic went off there. Uh it requires that the uh city uh provide an itemized statement on remuneration expenses uh regarding each member of council in relation to their service as a member of council or any other body including a local board to which the member has been appointed by council or on which the member holds office by virtue of being a member of council. So what that means is that if there’s any remuneration that’s paid by those local boards then it

06:19:18
should be paid as well. Uh your reference to boards that you may be involved in in your own personal capacity is not related to the municipal reporting requirement. >> Okay, you’re good. Okay, I see councelor Stolty’s hand up and I think you’re ahead of less questions than councelor Charmin.

06:19:48
So if that’s okay, I’m going to do Stolty then Charmin. >> Thank you. Actually, that’s helpful because it’s in direct relation to the previously asked questions. So just for added clarity and I don’t know who could answer this, Craig or Blake or Kurt, do we have boards that counselors receive additional compensation for? I wasn’t aware of that.

06:20:11
through the chair. Sorry, I was just uh signaling to the controller sitting in the back corner uh who tells me no, we don’t have anywhere you’re receiving compensation that we know of. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> Okay. Um councelor >> Oh, sorry. I’m just hearing conservation holding please. >> Well, I just want to I I assumed councelor Stoalty, your question is related to our municipality.

06:20:36
We are all covered at the region for regional appointments. That’s separate. >> Sorry, there’s a question about conservation halton. I’m on conservation halton board and I receive no additional compensation for that. Just for clarity. >> Okay. Councelor Charman. >> Yeah, actually I I think that if you can put that that um table up again, please.

06:20:59
I think it’s important. Um thank you. So I think the table is actually failing also to state that there is future benefit received from the payments being made to both in terms of the um the employees component and the uh employers component which is not registered on here and that is an important factor because the money that is uh paid when you’re younger and you’re worried that your net income is lower than mine um is going to come back to you with much more benefit in terms of uh interest expense and interest benefit uh and presumably that you’re you know 30 years younger than me by the time you retire you’ll be getting 80%.

06:21:57
So we could put on here 80% of your current income being paid out annually every year would and that would be a more correct representation because you will be getting the benefit of the money you’re paying in now at a later date. That would be a more correct representation. >> Okay, very long question. Thank you.

06:22:16
Over to you. >> Yeah, if I’m still in this role in 40 years, then I’m going to ask the public to fire me. Thank you. >> Sorry, follow up. That’s not an answer to my question because you’ve been here eight years. So, at that point, you’ll get 16% and that is completely calculable. >> Sorry. 32 more years.

06:22:34

Okay. >> Just And yeah, just please don’t >> Okay, >> don’t don’t keep me hanging on that long. Okay, councelor Galrath, councelor Nissan, is your hand up to respond or is this a new question? >> Okay, councelor Greath, I >> I mean I have a I have a question on this chart.

06:22:50
I I I think I know what councelor Charman is getting at and I believe the the 125 under 70 is missing the employer’s contribution to the 14378 is actually paid on top of that 125 by the taxpayer. Am I correct in that thinking? Do you are you aware? Is that a CFO question? >> Uh through the chair. So yeah, that’s my understanding.

06:23:24
The uh first deductions um >> the first one under age 70 would be the deduction. I’m just trying to figure that’s both the full amount. Don’t know. I believe it is. That’s what’s missing under there. But >> yeah, >> that’s why we go from from gross to net and why our net is is lower because you’re making that 14,000 >> uh in that case.

06:24:01
But listen, this is exactly why we should get the report. >> If I may, I think it’s probably is um um I I think it’s I’ll have to double check, but I think you’re probably correct. It’s probably missing the the city’s contribution to the owners. I think that’s probably representing the employee um what you pay out of your your pay.

06:24:19
So I think the other side of that would be the uh city’s contribution most likely is missing, but I will double check. >> Thank you, >> councelor Stoli. >> I was going to say I think that line of questioning just highlights why additional clarity would transparency be helpful. >> So that’s a that’s a statement. Yes. >> Okay. Okay.

06:24:42
Um I don’t see Okay, councelor Charman. >> Sure. So, thanks very much. But in addition to that, there’s a question. Um my um despite uh both Angelo and my benefits are lower than the other counselors. Uh that’s not reflected in that table either. So, so that means that the the the the net uh the income plus benefits which includes uh and the other benefits uh should include the the difference.

06:25:14
So it’s, you know, so it’s actually starting to change a little bit, but I do think that there should be a line on the bottom of the report that says um that future benefits uh are um have to be recognized because what they are paying into what we paid into. Can this be done? Um can this be paid? Can that also be identified that for the number of years service they will get so much a year benefits when they uh when they can draw? >> So through the chair.

06:25:44
So, um, that’s an OMR’s calculation. Again, I’m just stressing what we provide is what we’re required to municipal the municipal act. So, yes, if there’s there’s a benefit in the future, we’re not able to calculate that. That’s an OMR’s calculation. There’s a lot of factors that go into that what that future, >> but you can indicate it in the in the comments.

06:26:05

Sure. and and other government sources to back to the councelor would include um child support, pensions, um reduced taxes, tax allowances, you said government sources. So I think it’s a way more complex thing. I think the whole discussion of net income is a private matter. Thank you. >> Okay, >> that’s a comment. That is a comment.

06:26:36
That is a comment. Okay. So, uh uh for clarity, uh the amend councelor Nissan’s hand is up, but again, it’s just the amendment that’s on the floor. >> Yeah. And I just want to be absolutely clear. What you what happens in your personal life is up to you. I’m talking about benefits, pensions, and salaries related to the role in which we are in at this exact moment here around the table. And and that’s it.

06:27:00
And I think that’s very clear in the amendment. Thank you. Call the vote. >> Uh okay. Thanks. I actually have one question because uh it did get opened up around compensation and uh we will have in the next regional meeting. This is a question. Um are are disclosures of which you’ll see I’m on the police board and I did not receive anything for attending those police board meetings, but I do go on my CAPG uh conference which is approved as many of you go to FCM AMO.

06:27:31
Um the only one that I’ve seen that would be different than the regional appointments uh by virtue of the role that is held outside of the scope of AMO and FCM uh would be big city mayors. And so I have no visibility into that. Is that a a a funded role or a stippen or an honorarium uh at all? And uh maybe it’s to the CFO, maybe it’s to the mayor. I don’t know.

06:27:55
But if we’re going to be doing this, let’s do it in a wholesome way. So, I don’t know, but maybe someone does. >> Thank you. that has not been a compensated role. Uh at their recent um uh meeting approved uh stipen for um expenses for the for travel and other things for the chair, but that has previously been funded by the uh the mayor in their own budget.

06:28:29

So then that covers all all appointments that I know of uh by virtue of the role. Okay. So then that that to me is the remaining motion on the floor. It’s not been amended uh that I can remind myself of. Um I don’t have to do anything because I don’t know how to get into my own. So we’re good. >> So I will now call the vote.

06:28:52

Okay, Angelo, go ahead. Question or comment? I need to know. >> This will be a question. Thanks. City advisory groups. When staff go on a trip that is paid for by taxpayers, should that be a taxable benefit? >> Question number one. >> Point of order. And may I >> um I’m not sure I want to do that one though.

06:29:36
So we’ve already asked about other appointments. Would travel not be included. Is that is it a dispute with the concept? >> Oh, I maybe I misheard, but I thought the uh questioner was asking about staff and this is nothing to do with staff. No, whatever you want about counsel >> for counselors through advisory committees. >> Oh, it was hard that was hard to hear.

06:29:55
Okay. Well, anyways, please allow the question to proceed then. >> Thanks. through the chair. Sorry, I thought I heard you say staff staff for traveling. Is that was that >> No, sorry. Counselors. >> So, no, it it’s it’s not a a taxable benefit. >> Is our parking stall for counselors a taxable benefit? >> Yeah.

06:30:35
It is. >> Yes. >> So, my followup is if it is, why isn’t the other one a taxable benefit? So, uh, through the chair, I’m not a public accountant, so I can’t give, uh, income tax advice, but I think the processes that we, the city does follow, um, and that we report on for tax purposes is compliant with CRA because we do go through some audits.

06:31:02
So, I can’t answer that right now, but we could certainly do some research if, if you want to provide that answer. >> Followup, please. Can we have that for council? I’m being told yes. >> Okay. I don’t see any more questions, comments. So, I will now call the vote on just the amendment noting that we will go to the main motion and then uh I’ll just take the vote on this part now. So, all those in favor please.

06:31:33
Okay. Any opposed? Okay. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. That carries. Okay. So, that does carry. So now we are going to go to the main motion of the pulled item. No one needs me to read it. It’s in your agendas. All those in favor? So does anyone want to comment? >> Pardon? >> Motion.

06:31:53
Does anyone want to comment on the motion as amended? >> Councelor Nissan. >> Uh yeah, recorded vote. Thank you. >> Okay. Um I’m going to turn it over to the clerk then. I see no com no hands are up for comment. So I’ll now turn to the vote and ask that the clerk take a recorded vote. >> So this is the main motion as amended. Councelor Galbreth >> support.

06:32:22

Councelor Nissan >> support. >> Councelor Stoalty >> support. >> Councelor Charman >> do not support. >> Councelor Banttovena >> do not support. >> Mayor Maid Ward >> support. Councelor Karns support. That’s five in favor. >> Okay. And that carries. >> Okay. And now we’re finished with this. So, can we take it off the screen? And we’re going to move over to item 8.

06:33:02
1, which is the use of corporate resources during an election policy review, LLS 1226. Um, I’m going to ask if there are any questions of staff. Councelor Nissan. >> Yeah. Uh, delegate mentioned food for feedback. I’m certainly want an uneven playing field there. Uh however, I’m also concerned that someone who’s running might actually want to be there.

06:33:35
So um do we have any uh advice from our staff about how to ensure that this does not uh you know create an uneven playing field for food for feedback? What’s what’s their recommendation? I mean you know what’s your response to the delegate as well? Thank you. >> Uh thank you uh through the chair.

06:33:55
Uh so the food for feedback is referenced in the general policy uh at attendance at city events and so really the this is the uh in as noted in the report uh staff met with members of council uh and did uh scans of juris other neighboring jurisdictions to come up with this policy.

06:34:18
Uh, one of the things with food for feedback is this was the informal way that food for feedback was handled last year by uh, council members attending that they did not have a booth. So, this was putting into policy the practice that was there previously. Um, food for feedback >> food for feedback. >> You can’t yell across the chambers.

06:34:38
Very good. >> Food for feedback is simply one of the city uh events that’s referenced in this policy. Uh the general policy is that candidates and registered third parties may attend city organized, hosted or funded events during the campaign period, but may not display or distribute any campaign materials or engage in any election related activities.

06:35:03
So food for feedback is just one example of these types of events. Um I the council will have to make the decision what it thinks uh should be included in the policy. From a staff perspective the policy is such that there is no uh distribution or uh engaging in any election related activities at these events. Uh food for feedback from staff’s perspective is just one more event um uh that is being addressed by here.

06:35:33
it’s specifically addressed given the um uh given what was uh that it was held last year and we’re being very specific about that one. But uh from staff’s perspective, that really is a council decision and we can uh come up with an amended policy if council feels that uh that is something that they want to specifically address food for feedback as opposed uh in a in a manner different than any other uh city organized, hosted or funded events.

06:36:08

Okay, thank you very much. Uh second question is about newsletters. just looking in the markup version. So, it’s F2 and it’s saying that um if I’m reading this correctly, um newsletters can only go out without the counselor’s name on it. Is that is that correct? And my real question is, should we just not do council newsletters during the election period at all? and let let the city do the do the talking in that period through the chair.

06:36:51
Uh again, that’s something that uh council should make a decision on. Staff is recommending that if you are going to be sending these newsletters out, it’s simply a, for example, a W three newsletter as opposed to a newsletter from councelor Nissan. Um that’s the it strikes that balance between getting information out to the uh committee uh or to the citizens rather uh while council continues to act in its elected official role uh but keeps it outside of campaigning uh in in a candidate for election role. So that’s the balance that be is being struck by that policy. If council feels differently then staff is certainly open to amending that. I I will amend that in due course. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh Councelor Charman, please. >> Yeah, I’m just going to make a comment so I get three minutes.

06:37:48
I’m finally figuring this out. Um so with with respect to Jim’s recommendation that count candidates should not turn up, we have so many events running out throughout that time of year that you know one more isn’t a lot of difference. But I would say to you that there are people the people who go to food for feedback are actually interested in the uh the um the municipality and and having engaging with um candidates in that environment is a place where they might like to find them and talk to them. I have no problem with uh going along. Typically I pay spend less time than most of my colleagues in food for feedback because I’m at the the uh orchard community picnic. um where I don’t get an awful lot more attention than anyway. So, I’m have no problem with uh with uh members, candidates going to the food for feedback or any event in the city that’s paid for by the city. It doesn’t matter. Um just as long as they’re not wearing

06:38:46
taking campaign gear. Um and I think the other thing is that so with respect to um sorry, what was the other item you were just just discussing? >> Newsletters. um I pay for my own newsletter anyway and so it’s it’s already in my name and it it doesn’t so so I so we will have another one which will go out from ward five and that will be uh you know that’s also fine um so so I’m not I’m not worried about it one way or the other I can uh I will be sitting putting out a newsletter which will be under Paul Shaman as it always has been but for you who use uh it becomes a question of what city information I include in there and how I do that but yep we can have a ward five newsletters was independent of me. It’s fine. I have no problem with the I think what you’ve written here is fine. >> Councelor Bentovenia followed by councelor >> comment. Um I have no problem with food for feedback. Uh if those of you recall, I

06:39:45
think Paul Councelor Charman and councelor or mayor me Ward will remember 12 years ago I was sitting on the other side as a candidate and I actually changed the bylaw to make it fair for candidates who want to run against people around this horseshoe. So, I would think anybody running for election should be at those type of events if they’re serious about winning.

06:40:17
So, I will uh encourage that. Thank you, >> Councelor Stalty. >> Thank you. It’s a comment. Um it’s a or actually it’s a question first about newsletters that councelor Charman kind of tipped me to and I’m now confused because I was of the understanding that we went through this in 2022 as far as personal news newsletters even if they are paid for because I was as well had paid for my own up until that point but if email addresses of which the newsletters go out to had been collected during the person’s role as a counselor or The use of their assistant and assisting to build that newsletter email list made it not possible to send out during election period a personal a personal newsletter. Is that am I misunderstanding that

06:41:14
that it all came down to how those email how that email list was created and if any city resources like our assistants or staff participated in any way in the creation of that email list of distribution >> uh through the chair to the council. That’s something I’ll need to consult with clerk staff on.

06:41:29
I’m not sure their previous interpretation with respect to the policy itself. This is a policy in relation to use of corporate resources during an election. So to councelor Charman’s point, if he’s not using a corporate resource, that’s not covered by this policy. >> Okay. If we could get clarity on that, because last election period, I was prevented from using my personal newsletter for those reasons.

06:41:52
So I’d like clarity if that’s changed. We’ll get that clarity. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh, is it a question or a comment? >> Uh, it’s a comment. >> Okay. Comment. >> Yeah, I’ll um I’m going to take another look at it and uh talk to staff about it and I’ll try to find a seconder for council if I want to change something so we don’t have to deal with it.

06:42:18
Now, I just want to be clear though that my primary concern is actually printed newsletters, notwithstanding uh the concerns that were just raised uh because printed newsletters carry a significant cost uh to the taxpayer and uh you know, if I send out a newsletter in March that has my name on it and then send another one out in May that doesn’t have my name on it but looks very similar, I just feel like that’s not really fair.

06:42:43
So, um so I’ll I’ll look into that. Thank you. Otherwise, uh, thank you staff for the report and I am okay with food for feedback. I I think honestly when you’re when you’re a candidate, you need every opportunity you can to get name recognition and uh I I’ll certainly be very careful and maybe I maybe I won’t go at all myself, but um I think a fair even playing field is fine. Thank you.

06:43:12

Um I do have a question. Um, one of the sections in there, and I’ve raised this with our, uh, commissioner of legal services, uh, is that it says staff would not staff wouldn’t object to an amendment that ends the policy related to use of social media. Uh, what is being recommended in the report is that you create a brand new account and everything like that, which is literally impossible.

06:43:37
I also don’t know how to get into my social media password, so I can’t even do that either. So, um how how might you recommend that we are able to utilize our existing um it’s not it’s not feasibly possible to create two brand new separate social medias. What might staff’s recommendation be? Uh thank you for the question uh chair and that is uh uh in relation to the uh social media policy at sub E on page I believe 11 of the policy and that that as I indicated earlier the genesis of these policies was uh looking at best practices from other municipalities interviewing uh council members and uh looking at the existing policy And one of the the policies that had come up as

06:44:35
some other municipalities are uh dealing with is a uh social media account policy. And uh staff felt it important to include that uh in this policy as well. And right now the policy, as you indicate, would suggest that uh for elected officials who are choosing to use their existing social media accounts, uh that they’d have to um indicate that there’s accounts being used for election campaign purposes and not related to their duties as an elected official.

06:45:06
I think the point you’re making is that you would want to use your account for your duties as an elected official while you’re still um a counselor while um uh or use it for uh election campaign purposes. And so the policy as it uh reads right now staff is uh support I spoke with clerk staff about this is uh supportive of having the par paragraph end at uh the word election campaign purposes period and is uh supportive of deleting and is not related to their duties as an elected official. So simply would the policy would require that if you’re going to be using your social media account that it is your existing social media account that there’s a clear statement indicating that it’s being used for election campaign purposes. So, just to follow up, um, what I recall is in 2022, we were instructed to, of

06:46:06
course, take down any city taken pictures. Obviously, those are corporate assets. And then you were to write instead of like Lisa Karn’s, W 2 counselor as your profile. You were be you were being told to write um like candidate for mayor, candidate for. So you’re to write that instead of war two counselor and that’s correct.

06:46:30
What day do you need to do that? Is that the September day? >> These uh just reading the policy. I can get back to you on this rather than me going through the policy to look I believe it’s the campaign period, but I I want to read the policy to give you an accurate information. >> Okay.

06:47:00
And then my second question is uh the content that goes into those um displays, digital collaterals, if they’re taken by city staff, how do you delineate which is if you’re using the same if you’re using the same platform for both? How do you delineate when a video or something or a picture has been taken by staff? even if it’s at food for feedback, you shouldn’t do this everybody.

06:47:29
Um, if it’s taken by staff or if it’s taken by a volunteer, how do you delineate between those two things? So, this is the challenge with using a single uh point of uh social media uh during election. So for photographs and videos, the policy indicates that during the election campaign period, city communication materials, including videos, will not feature or highlight members of council.

06:47:57
Uh so that is the that is the restriction on uh the posting of pictures and videos. Um >> maybe I could be more clear if a committee will allow me. So let’s say I’m at something related to W two. it’s a park opening or somewhere else in the city and my assistant takes a picture of me smiling, cutting a ribbon, whatever I’m doing.

06:48:23
And I put that into this now blended social media that is a that is I used a corporate resource to take that picture. Do I need to delionate it or do I just need to assume I’m out there doing my duties? >> Again, that is the challenge of interpreting the policy. The policy would suggest that uh you would not be including any the smiling and waving picture at the park opening uh during the campaign period >> which is September like it’s the one month barely 6 weeks.

06:49:00

No. Um >> is it May 1st? >> Yes. >> So I have a lot of work to do from May 1st until I got a lot of ribbons to cut between that time. So what do I do? and I can go back into Q, but just trying to not get in trouble ahead of time. >> The the suggestion would be that you don’t post that on your social media >> to comply with the policy.

06:49:25

Maybe we can get a memo with some real life examples by council. >> Councelor Stoalty. >> Thanks. I think this is related to that and if you could clarify for me or get clar clarity for councel the campaign period if I I certainly understand that a potential candidate a new a new candidate who’s not an incumbent can start talking about their intention to run for council whenever they choose because they’re not beholdened by this.

06:49:57
Is there a restriction as to that May 1st date by which a present member of council can or cannot begin election related campaigning? So again through the through the chair, this is a this is a policy that deals with the use of corporate resources as opposed to any restrictions you have as a a candidate under the municipal elections act.

06:50:28
So this is focused on >> okay corporate resources. >> Okay. Do I should go back to the clerk’s department to ask them that? Uh yes or yeah or satisfy yourself through municipal elections act. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Okay. So um I’ll just see if I don’t have to pass the gavvel. Uh would staff like to do a staff initiated amendment which deletes the and is not related to their duties as an elected official for the social media or would you like me to either pass the gavl or uh find someone else to move that? Okay, >> that’s okay. I’ll pass the gavvel back to councelor Gre and I’m going to table an amendment. >> What’s happening? >> You’re the you’re the chair again. >> Oh, okay. Uh, okay. Do you have uh some some wording?

06:51:26

Yes. Uh, I’m going to ask Blake to help guide me back to the to the section and it’s just the one under You would be looking at under section five. Yeah. >> Which is restrictions during the campaign period. >> Yeah. >> Sub item E which deals with social media and subp paragraph two under that. I think it’s around page 11 of the policy.

06:52:02
No, I think it’s page nine of 13. >> Page nine, >> nine of 13, subsection G. >> Yes, I’m looking at the uh the redlined version. So, the pages are off a little bit. >> Okay. So, it would be to amend uh four restrictions during the campaign period. Social media section G. Members of council are encouraged to create a secondary campaign social media account for the purposes of campaigning.

06:52:26
That’s not actually feasible. Elected officials who choose to use their existing must include for the duration of the election campaign period a clear statement indicating the accounts being used for election campaign purposes. It will end there and not include and is not related to their duties as an elected official because we can’t actually do those two things separately because we’re still allowed to hold town halls.

06:52:49
We’re still allowed to attend events. We still have to attend board meetings. Uh so there will still be some social media um communication out to the community related to the existing role. So I will like to have section G end at campaign purposes. Uh and that is the recommendation that I worked on with the commissioner.

06:53:11
So >> clerk suggests we take a five minute uh recess to get the correct wording. So, we’ll uh return at uh 4:20. >> Call it. >> Hey, >> and then we’re leaving. >> I mean, if you guys don’t care, we can just like call it Okay. Um,

06:59:25
councelor Karns, uh, your amendments on the screen. Do you want to >> do you want to comment on it first? >> Yeah, thanks so much. So I did work with um the commissioner of legal services to add a lens of practicality around this related to uh trying to thread the line between uh a a counselor or a mayor to you know uh an um nominee or whatever you want to call them >> candidate.

06:59:54
Um and so having different social medias is is really tricky because you would essentially be building it from scratch today. uh which is not possible and there is that difficulty with trying to determine what is workrelated and what is uh candidate related. So um this restriction piece removes and is not related to their duties as an elected official because those things would happen.

07:00:18
Uh it happened to me when we were making coyote information uh well known in the 2022 uh election. So there are times when that social media does need to be used by the sitting uh elected official and so that’s why it has to be used for those duties. Uh I I will ask maybe for some uh clarity around the campaign period from staff.

07:00:43
So certainly I can understand behavior needs to be reccalibrated come that last window when lawn signs can go up and it’s September but uh to go from May 1st to essentially be sterilized until election day makes things really difficult. So um I’ll take some thoughts on that uh related to this because that’s when the real work needs needs to be done.

07:01:06
So if you can uh just make some commentary on the difference between campaign period and election period. uh we just want to make sure that we’re still getting people the information that they need and you know that we’re earning the pay that we uh have just had to disclose. So I’ll take some insight there but I did work on this wording with uh the commissioner of legal and legislative services.

07:01:30

Uh thank you chair and uh city clerk Mike Don’s here that can speak to a little more detail on that aspect of your question. >> Certainly. Thank you through uh through your chair. Um so the election period is uh generally not or generally from May 1st until the day after when the official results are uh are uh signed off by myself.

07:01:50
The um the it would kick in a lot of the policy kicks in for the candidates and for members of council when they uh registered themselves as a candidate pay the fee and uh submit their nomination form. >> Okay. >> Sorry. Isn’t there an in between time which is like the day after the last council when things get super hot? Uh but the you’re mixing up words.

07:02:17
So you have campaign period. Uh but then in in the yeah the blackout and then campaign period in the corporate policy is actually the day that nominations are filed and runs to December 31st. So you couldn’t even technically post inauguration. Um, so I’m just wondering do we need to have better clarity around around the timelines? So blackout campaign period uh through the uh chair uh to answer your question the policy does define blackout period, campaign period uh those are defined terms within the policy uh nomination day. So uh that may provide the the clarity that you’re looking for. >> Okay. So then might you recommend that the the time in which you really can’t use your social media for anything

07:03:14
related to um I don’t know. I I’ll leave it with you. If you think this is okay and and I’m basically going to do all the same things that I’m doing with probably like a couple hey this is happening mixed in. Um if that’s okay then then this is what this is. >> Uh in response to that chair what I would say is that the the policy is structured that if c members of council are going to first of all it’s to encourage to create a secondary campaign social media.

07:03:44
If that’s if if members of council are not going to do that uh for logistical reasons or whatever, then if they want to use the existing social media accounts uh for the duration of the campaign period, then we’ve got that statement. The intention is that that social media account becomes the campaign account recognizing that there are some things as an elected official you’re going to want to share.

07:04:09
You’re going to want to share. There’s a meeting coming up, a lot of the city communications, for example. But the intent of the policy is that you’re not using that social media account to do the city business that is focusing on the candidate or yourself. For example, that you’re not Your example, I think, was a good one.

07:04:30
You know, showing up at the park, ribbon cutting, smiley face kind of thing. That isn’t something that you’d be using that account for, right? Um, so the that that that side of the official city business would be kind of pushed down and muted on this social media account because it would be focused on your campaign side of things.

07:04:53
So that’s the intent of the the policy and I and I didn’t I apologize. I did not mean any disrespect with the comment. I was simply referring to how you described it earlier. >> Don’t worry, there will be smiley face in that period. So, um, the question I’m asking though is I think you need to bring us some practical examples because, uh, smiley face should be taken by a volunteer or someone other than staff.

07:05:16
And if I’m doing a work thing like holding a coyote whistle, I can ask my office assistant to say, take a picture of me with this coyote whistle and say, you should probably get a coyote whistle. So, can you bring us some practical I I still support what’s here. Um, but can you please bring us some practical examples for council if possible? >> We can do that.

07:05:42

Uh, Mary Ward is next. >> Thanks. I uh recognize the time. Um, I do think that this requires some more thought and clarity. My reading of this with or without those words is that as soon as you turn an account into a campaign account, you can’t use city resources and that includes somebody taking your picture or a staff member posting on that account to do the work of that account.

07:06:09
uh including any I mean you you could post uh city information the way a candidate could but that was my reading of of what is here to keep it separated and you and I just had a huddle about it and that’s what I thought I heard you say. So if if if what this means is it’s all intermingled all the time and all that’s changed is this is also used for election purposes.

07:06:38
If if that’s what’s meant, okay, it gets gets muddy, but okay. Uh and and if what you’re saying is there’s still one account that you can use either to post your work as an elected official or to post campaign information. All that’s changed is the banner. That’s how we did it in the 2022 election.

07:07:00
So if that’s what is meant here, that’s not how I understood it at all. But if that’s what is meant here, that needs to be spelled out very clearly. Uh I took a much more restrictive interpretation of this that that you couldn’t put your city business on a campaign account. Uh but it sounds like um that’s not the case.

07:07:23

Uh through the chair to to the mayor, I think that really it’s that definition of what is city business. Uh, for example, if the the the post on the social media account was to advise that committee of the whole is coming up in April and here’s the date, that’s city business versus the city business of you individually doing something that’s highlighting a personal act step taken or action or attendance or something like that’s where the intention is to keep it very factual uh to on the on the city business side of things. just there’s this meeting coming up. This is a link to a decision, for example. Uh that that is the type of city business that is intended with that uh policy. >> So no no pictures of ourselves at ribbon cutings is what I think I’m hearing. No individual anything. It’s all here’s the council agendas. Here’s a town hall. Here’s election information. That’s it.

07:08:22
No names, pictures, nothing. >> That is the intent of the policy. >> Okay. I think that needs to be spelled out more clearly. I’ll just say that because that’s not how I read it at all. >> Uh, Councelor Benty is next. >> Thank you, Vice Chair. Uh, this is a great interesting uh discussion here. Uh, there’s so many scenarios uh to come up with every single one.

07:08:48
I I don’t think we want to do that to staff. Um, when in doubt, ask the question. I could recall again going back in my days, um, I had to make an election. I had to go the other way, make an election Facebook. And by the way, I still have my personal Facebook with the car that I had wrapped, which was a whole another issue that I had to get everything changed, bylaws.

07:09:17
It’s still on my personal because I know I’m going to run again. And guess what? Somebody’s going to see it. It’s got all the stuff off. >> W six. Got my name off of it, everything. But everybody knows that car. >> Question counselor. >> Question. >> Question. >> But any story or question? >> Sorry, I’m making a comment.

07:09:35
So I’ll be finished in a sec. But I think if you in doubt, ask the question. It’s simple as that. Thank you, >> Councelor Nissan. Uh yeah, I can ask staff would they like to take this back and you know take another look at this for Thursday. I got a couple days now. And I’m also I also think the part about two social media accounts like I can’t tell you how divorced that is from our ongoing reality to try to uh start an account from scratch.

07:10:07
My account predates me being a counselor. So um I I don’t know what’s what what one hopes to achieve through that, but I can assure you it was would not be effective communication on either side. So, um, yeah, quick question to staff. You want We’re I We’re passed now. Anyways, you want to just take this back >> through the chair to the council.

07:10:25
Uh, staff would be happy for this item to be kept open and to get some further uh clarity and information. Uh, with respect to your question and and I do note that to to councelor Bentovenu’s point, there’s no way we can possibly come up with every scenario. There is going to be uh we’re going to have to apply the policy to uh circumstances as the months proceed.

07:10:48
And certainly uh we try to get a policy uh been put in place in advance that allows us to do that in a way that’s uh clear expectations for uh all uh all candidates uh for election. So uh we can you’ve identified a couple areas where you required some additional clarification. And if we keep the item open, staff is happy to get back to you with uh or get back to this uh committee uh that if we’re adjourning now uh on Thursday.

07:11:22

Councelor Charman is next. >> Well, you know, I’ve run four four elections and I’ve never had a problem with any of these things. I have two accounts for everything and what the hell. Um it’s pretty straightforward. If you got a if you got a city plus uh social media account, you just change it so it says candidate for it’s no problem.

07:11:42
And then you have your private one and you do all the stuff that way. >> I I whatever you want. I’ll I’ll do whatever you want. I’m not stressed about I may not put things on the side of my car though. That just look too chitsy. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. Uh, Councelor Karns, I’ve been advised it would be appropriate for you to withdraw this for now.

07:12:11
Um, and recess the meeting. >> Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m happy to do. Um, happy to withdraw this. So, just delete it away. And, uh, at this time I will recess the meeting until Thursday at Are you dead? >> 100 p.m. And so, we are now in recess only. Okay.